The official cycling thread

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DOB
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by DOB »

Seez wrote:You will get rubber dust from the tyre as it degrades with a wheel-on trainer. Worth getting a trainer tyre if you use it a lot, which won’t degrade but can’t be ridden outside. i’ve had mine for over 10 years and used it heavily. I have it on a very cheap training wheel so to ride outside I can change the wheel not the tyre, because it’s a plum of a job trying to get it off.

Like DOB, I have an old fluid trainer (a kurt kinetic), but with a cheap speed sensor that your phone / pc can communicate with, apps can calculate virtual power and give you a very high standard training programme. I use TrainerRoad, which puts your target and actual power for the interval at the bottom of the screen so you can watch Netflix or Prime without slacking off. Zwift and Sufferfest are also worth trying to see which you prefer, i think they all give you a free trial month.
Seez,

What sensors do you have to connect to Trainerroad? Do you need an ANT+ dongle to connect to the laptop? I have a speed/cadence sensor for my Garmin, so I just follow GCN workout videos, and try to work off heartrate/cadence for following the plan, but maybe power would help. I'm always going slower at the end of a workout, which tells me I must be working to a higher % of my ftp at the start than they're telling me to.
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Leffe
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Leffe »

I did my 56km route at ave 31.2 km/h last night. Quite happy being as I've mainly been MTBing over the winter and spring. Has the HR at a near constant 180bpm for the latter half of it.
Seez
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Seez »

DOB wrote:
Seez wrote:You will get rubber dust from the tyre as it degrades with a wheel-on trainer. Worth getting a trainer tyre if you use it a lot, which won’t degrade but can’t be ridden outside. i’ve had mine for over 10 years and used it heavily. I have it on a very cheap training wheel so to ride outside I can change the wheel not the tyre, because it’s a plum of a job trying to get it off.

Like DOB, I have an old fluid trainer (a kurt kinetic), but with a cheap speed sensor that your phone / pc can communicate with, apps can calculate virtual power and give you a very high standard training programme. I use TrainerRoad, which puts your target and actual power for the interval at the bottom of the screen so you can watch Netflix or Prime without slacking off. Zwift and Sufferfest are also worth trying to see which you prefer, i think they all give you a free trial month.
Seez,

What sensors do you have to connect to Trainerroad? Do you need an ANT+ dongle to connect to the laptop? I have a speed/cadence sensor for my Garmin, so I just follow GCN workout videos, and try to work off heartrate/cadence for following the plan, but maybe power would help. I'm always going slower at the end of a workout, which tells me I must be working to a higher % of my ftp at the start than they're telling me to.
I have a garmin speed sensor and hr monitor connecting over an ant+ dongle and powermeter pedals connecting over bluetooth. Before i got the pedals, i used a speed/cadence sensor with virtual power and it worked very well. I compared virtual power to the powermeter when i got it and vp was about 20W too high, which isn’t bad, but it doesn’t matter so long as it is consistent within your setup. As long as you keep the tyre pumped to the same pressure and the drum tightened onto the tyre the same number of turns each time, virtual power is just as good as a powermeter in my experience. Highly recommend trainerroad, the training plans are excellent.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Working from home so no commuting at present but christened my Ortleib panniers by filling up with Growlers and wine from the local Bottlo :D
Spyglass
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Spyglass »

I used to use a Kurt Kinetic which was fine but I found the VP calc wasn’t very reliable and I wanted to be able to use ERG mode that smart trainers provide, which makes sites like TrainerRoad, Zwift, etc a better experience. So I got a KickR when they were first released and would highly recommend one, expensive yes, but worthwhile if you’re serious about training.

I leave my old bike strapped to it and follow a TR plan that schedules workouts for me each day, so in the morning all I have to do is get on my bike and suffer 🥵🤮😁
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rustycruiser
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by rustycruiser »

I bought a Wahoo refurbished Kickr on Black Friday 2 years ago. It was totally worth it. Riding on a dumb trainer was complete crap for me, I hated it. Zwift on a smart trainer is actually motivating. You can do zone intervals on it in ERG mode, or ride in sim mode. I enjoy the competition aspect, trying to collect all the route and achievement badges. I also enjoy the social aspect, doing group rides with both IRL friends or with 1000s of strangers in Zwift events and tours. Registered on Zwift Power, and have started doing a few races as my FTP is getting a little better. At the end of the day you are still riding a trainer indoors, but I find myself far less mind numbing bored.
Seez
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Seez »

Spyglass wrote:I used to use a Kurt Kinetic which was fine but I found the VP calc wasn’t very reliable and I wanted to be able to use ERG mode that smart trainers provide, which makes sites like TrainerRoad, Zwift, etc a better experience. So I got a KickR when they were first released and would highly recommend one, expensive yes, but worthwhile if you’re serious about training.

I leave my old bike strapped to it and follow a TR plan that schedules workouts for me each day, so in the morning all I have to do is get on my bike and suffer 🥵🤮😁
Which FTP test do you use on TR? I thought I'd get a higher result out of the ramp test as I am a bit more towards the fast-twitch end of the spectrum (or at least I think I am!). However, I reckon I'm getting 20-30 watts lower on that than I would on the 2 x 8 minute test. I did my 10-mile PB after doing a warm-up similar to the ramp test - I read about Team Sky's TT warm-up and made my own version in TrainerRoad: https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling ... m-up-42min - perhaps I need to do that before the ramp test!
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

ramp test doesnt do it for me it always under reports my ftp. 20 mins or gtfo.
dinsdale
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by dinsdale »

I joined the Big Bike in with Louise Minchin on zwift last night - a charity ride. It has left me in quite a state. I hung in pretty well for 3 hours but then went off the back as the pace was too high for me.

I've done a lot of 1hr rides on zwift, looks like I need to up my distances and wind down the pace a little.
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Pat the Ex Mat
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Pat the Ex Mat »

Cycled into work and back on Wednesday.

Loads of energy but forgot I haven't ridden properly in a few months....

:yawn:
Spyglass
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Spyglass »

Seez wrote:
Spyglass wrote:I used to use a Kurt Kinetic which was fine but I found the VP calc wasn’t very reliable and I wanted to be able to use ERG mode that smart trainers provide, which makes sites like TrainerRoad, Zwift, etc a better experience. So I got a KickR when they were first released and would highly recommend one, expensive yes, but worthwhile if you’re serious about training.

I leave my old bike strapped to it and follow a TR plan that schedules workouts for me each day, so in the morning all I have to do is get on my bike and suffer 🥵🤮😁
Which FTP test do you use on TR? I thought I'd get a higher result out of the ramp test as I am a bit more towards the fast-twitch end of the spectrum (or at least I think I am!). However, I reckon I'm getting 20-30 watts lower on that than I would on the 2 x 8 minute test. I did my 10-mile PB after doing a warm-up similar to the ramp test - I read about Team Sky's TT warm-up and made my own version in TrainerRoad: https://www.trainerroad.com/app/cycling ... m-up-42min - perhaps I need to do that before the ramp test!
I haven't done an FTP test in years, I'm 58 and have a fixed amount of time I can allocate to training and riding, so my FTP doesn't vary much. I use a more empirical approach these days - if my fitness is down and I'm struggling to complete a workout then I'll reduce my FTP 10W in TR and visa versa. Interestingly there's about a 15W difference between the FTP reference point I use for indoor vs. outdoor workouts. For example, last night I did 3 x 3 x 3 @120% FTP outdoors and was averaging close to 350W for the nine intervals, on the trainer this would have been around 330W.

Yes I perform much better after a good warm up, the key when you're doing regular FTP tests is to do the same warm up before each test. The TR podcasts cover this very well.
farmerdave
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by farmerdave »

So what's happened to Strava.
I'm guessing they don't like me not paying them money so are dumbing things down to zero.
I'm just too cheap I guess.
dinsdale
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by dinsdale »

farmerdave wrote:So what's happened to Strava.
I'm guessing they don't like me not paying them money so are dumbing things down to zero.
I'm just too cheap I guess.
Their business model of giving almost everything away for free seems to have been unsuccessful.
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P in VG
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by P in VG »

dinsdale wrote:
farmerdave wrote:So what's happened to Strava.
I'm guessing they don't like me not paying them money so are dumbing things down to zero.
I'm just too cheap I guess.
Their business model of giving almost everything away for free seems to have been unsuccessful.
Especially with all the extra lockdown log-ins. Probably put too much pressure on their software
Spyglass
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Spyglass »

P in VG wrote:
dinsdale wrote:
farmerdave wrote:So what's happened to Strava.
I'm guessing they don't like me not paying them money so are dumbing things down to zero.
I'm just too cheap I guess.
Their business model of giving almost everything away for free seems to have been unsuccessful.
Especially with all the extra lockdown log-ins. Probably put too much pressure on their software
Strava needs to improve their algorithms to weed out the bogus KOM's caused in the main by the wave of new cyclists that are using the Strava phone app and then forgetting to stop their ride when they get in the car to drive home :roll:
dinsdale
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by dinsdale »

Spyglass wrote:
P in VG wrote:
dinsdale wrote:
farmerdave wrote:So what's happened to Strava.
I'm guessing they don't like me not paying them money so are dumbing things down to zero.
I'm just too cheap I guess.
Their business model of giving almost everything away for free seems to have been unsuccessful.
Especially with all the extra lockdown log-ins. Probably put too much pressure on their software
Strava needs to improve their algorithms to weed out the bogus KOM's caused in the main by the wave of new cyclists that are using the Strava phone app and then forgetting to stop their ride when they get in the car to drive home :roll:
As does Zwift. The joke when a pro turns up for a zwift ride is 'wow, he's almost good enough to win a Cat D race'

I don't use Strava much as segments/KOMs aren't my thing. I do use route planning software for which ridewithgps is much better and I pay for. RWGPS also introduced a big update to the route planner the same week as Strava announced they were moving several free features to premium. Go figure.
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

so many group rides have been ruined by fuckers chasing KOMs when they should be paying attention to the group.

*grumble grumble old school grumble*
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

On a happier note I have just bought some new wheels.

Image
Spyglass
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Spyglass »

ukjim wrote:On a happier note I have just bought some new wheels.

Image
Perfect for chasing those KOM's....during your group rides, obviously :D
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

:lol: :lol:
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

Gents, thinking of upgrading my bike and need some advice. Disclaimer; I literally haven’t a clue of the technical aspect of cycling.
How beneficial is getting a bigger cassette when it comes to speed? I’m pretty decent at sprints on the bike but want to know if there is anything apart from actually having to get fitter to go faster :lol: .
I have an HG500 12-28T cassette with a Tiagra 52-36T chainset.
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

your cassette will make zero difference. 12-28 is perfect.

only 2 things will increase your speed. power to weight ratio and drag reduction.

best way to get faster is to ride more and lose weight.

aero gainz are expensive and only really worth chasing if you are racing and in decent shape.
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

ukjim wrote:your cassette will make zero difference. 12-28 is perfect.

only 2 things will increase your speed. power to weight ratio and drag reduction.

best way to get faster is to ride more and lose weight.

aero gainz are expensive and only really worth chasing if you are racing and in decent shape.
Cheers :thumbup: .
What about tribars? Make much of a difference on flats?
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

Jim Lahey wrote:
ukjim wrote:your cassette will make zero difference. 12-28 is perfect.

only 2 things will increase your speed. power to weight ratio and drag reduction.

best way to get faster is to ride more and lose weight.

aero gainz are expensive and only really worth chasing if you are racing and in decent shape.
Cheers :thumbup: .
What about tribars? Make much of a difference on flats?
yep a big difference getting an aero position makes a world of difference. Tribars are a no no for group riding and you look like a nonce (or worse a triathlete) if you are not in a tt and you ride with them.

I will dig out the gains chart
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

ukjim wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
ukjim wrote:your cassette will make zero difference. 12-28 is perfect.

only 2 things will increase your speed. power to weight ratio and drag reduction.

best way to get faster is to ride more and lose weight.

aero gainz are expensive and only really worth chasing if you are racing and in decent shape.
Cheers :thumbup: .
What about tribars? Make much of a difference on flats?
yep a big difference getting an aero position makes a world of difference. Tribars are a no no for group riding and you look like a nonce (or worse a triathlete) if you are not in a tt and you ride with them.

I will dig out the gains chart
Fair enough.
I’m hitting 1hr 10 over 40km on a relatively flat course (230m climb) and I am hoping to take another 5 mins off that at some point.
I’ve been doing early morning duathlons on Saturday mornings with the cycle, 5 min transition at the house then a 10km run. Given that I’m usually out on the bike at 5am (to avoid bastarding traffic lights) appearance shouldn’t really be a factor!
johnstrac
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by johnstrac »

Jim Lahey wrote:
ukjim wrote:
Jim Lahey wrote:
ukjim wrote:your cassette will make zero difference. 12-28 is perfect.

only 2 things will increase your speed. power to weight ratio and drag reduction.

best way to get faster is to ride more and lose weight.

aero gainz are expensive and only really worth chasing if you are racing and in decent shape.
Cheers :thumbup: .
What about tribars? Make much of a difference on flats?
yep a big difference getting an aero position makes a world of difference. Tribars are a no no for group riding and you look like a nonce (or worse a triathlete) if you are not in a tt and you ride with them.

I will dig out the gains chart
You got clipless pedals ? Big improvements there.

Fair enough.
I’m hitting 1hr 10 over 40km on a relatively flat course (230m climb) and I am hoping to take another 5 mins off that at some point.
I’ve been doing early morning duathlons on Saturday mornings with the cycle, 5 min transition at the house then a 10km run. Given that I’m usually out on the bike at 5am (to avoid bastarding traffic lights) appearance shouldn’t really be a factor!
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Jim Lahey
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Jim Lahey »

Lads, finally got the sign off from the missus to get a turbo 8)

So should I go Kickr Core or Kickr Smart Trainer? KST is £300 more expensive. Is it worth paying more for it?
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DOB
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by DOB »

Jim Lahey wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:10 am Lads, finally got the sign off from the missus to get a turbo 8)

So should I go Kickr Core or Kickr Smart Trainer? KST is £300 more expensive. Is it worth paying more for it?
The lad at my LBS says the difference is just that the Smart is a bit heavier and more stable and lets you wobble a bit as you ride.

I'm still on my 10 year old Cycleops fluid trainer. But I'm not even on that right now, because it's too smoky to ride on the back deck.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

3. Shoe Covers will cost you no more than $50 and could save you half a minute in 40kms. Shoe covers smooth turbulent air over the straps and buckles of the shoes.
Are these guys for real? Maybe at the very highest levels but for the average cyclist that is laughable
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DOB
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by DOB »

Duff Paddy wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:53 pm
3. Shoe Covers will cost you no more than $50 and could save you half a minute in 40kms. Shoe covers smooth turbulent air over the straps and buckles of the shoes.
Are these guys for real? Maybe at the very highest levels but for the average cyclist that is laughable
It does say right there in the article;
A couple notes:
– These numbers are calculated for a rider over 40kms at a time of 48minutes. Faster than most of us could go!
So yeah, as you slow down, the amount of time something like shoe covers can save you will also go down, but still even for someone who can do that 40km in 1hr (which is a not unreasonable target for a decently athletic cyclist with a good kit budget) you're looking at saving a good few seconds. And the point is surely that the shoe covers are a better bang-for-buck investment than even things that most would consider low-hanging-fruit like aero wheels or helmet. This line at the end tells you all you need to know about who this article is aimed at;
Most of you probably already have a set of deep dish aero wheels for racing anyway. A rear disc wheel is one of the last items you should spend lots of money on if you’re looking for big savings. However, if you want to look cool this should be the first item on your list ;-)
It's also a 10-year old article.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

I cycle with a group of extremely fit lads some of whom were high level sportsmen and one thing I have learned is that the gear makes fudge all difference - the best guys will hose you on a €1000 bike or a €6000 bike
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DOB
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by DOB »

Absolutely. But like I said, that article is basically aimed at lads who are probably pretty fit already, and looking for an edge at their local 10/25 TT. The lads you ride with would probably beat the hour for a 25, and they might even do it on a road bike; the article is aimed at people who are that fit and fitter, trying to add an extra 0.25 km/h here or there.
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booji boy
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by booji boy »

Duff Paddy wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:53 pm
3. Shoe Covers will cost you no more than $50 and could save you half a minute in 40kms. Shoe covers smooth turbulent air over the straps and buckles of the shoes.
Are these guys for real? Maybe at the very highest levels but for the average cyclist that is laughable
How much earlier will I get to work?

Also will they help me achieve KOM on my local mountain bike trails?
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

DOB wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:40 pm Absolutely. But like I said, that article is basically aimed at lads who are probably pretty fit already, and looking for an edge at their local 10/25 TT. The lads you ride with would probably beat the hour for a 25, and they might even do it on a road bike; the article is aimed at people who are that fit and fitter, trying to add an extra 0.25 km/h here or there.
I don’t think overshoes will make any difference to “pretty fit” guys at their local 10/25 TT. It’s a load of bollox.
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DOB
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by DOB »

And you have the wind tunnel testing data to back that up, have you?
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

DOB wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:38 am And you have the wind tunnel testing data to back that up, have you?
Well precisely DOB. In a controlled environment you’d probably be able to measure some marginal improvement but in the real world there are so many variables the benefit will be insignifcant for all but the very highest level athletes, and even then it is probably negligible.
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

Duff Paddy wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:22 am
DOB wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:40 pm Absolutely. But like I said, that article is basically aimed at lads who are probably pretty fit already, and looking for an edge at their local 10/25 TT. The lads you ride with would probably beat the hour for a 25, and they might even do it on a road bike; the article is aimed at people who are that fit and fitter, trying to add an extra 0.25 km/h here or there.
I don’t think overshoes will make any difference to “pretty fit” guys at their local 10/25 TT. It’s a load of bollox.
you are so wrong.
Duff Paddy wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:14 pm I cycle with a group of extremely fit lads some of whom were high level sportsmen and one thing I have learned is that the gear makes fudge all difference - the best guys will hose you on a €1000 bike or a €6000 bike
I go riding with Conor Dunne and true he would hose you on any bike.

But if I ride a ten mile tt on my road bike vs my TT bike with a skinsuit aero lid and shaved legs at the same wattage there is a significant time difference.

I know this because I have done it many many times. Most time trial enthusiasts will perform tests of new equipment by riding fixed distance at a set wattage and calculating the difference a bit of kit makes. Hence why in the UK TTers are known as "testers". overshoes and skinsuit are probably the best value aero gainz you can get for the money.
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Duff Paddy
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

ukjim wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:54 am
Duff Paddy wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:22 am
DOB wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:40 pm Absolutely. But like I said, that article is basically aimed at lads who are probably pretty fit already, and looking for an edge at their local 10/25 TT. The lads you ride with would probably beat the hour for a 25, and they might even do it on a road bike; the article is aimed at people who are that fit and fitter, trying to add an extra 0.25 km/h here or there.
I don’t think overshoes will make any difference to “pretty fit” guys at their local 10/25 TT. It’s a load of bollox.
you are so wrong.
Duff Paddy wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:14 pm I cycle with a group of extremely fit lads some of whom were high level sportsmen and one thing I have learned is that the gear makes fudge all difference - the best guys will hose you on a €1000 bike or a €6000 bike
I go riding with Conor Dunne and true he would hose you on any bike.

But if I ride a ten mile tt on my road bike vs my TT bike with a skinsuit aero lid and shaved legs at the same wattage there is a significant time difference.

I know this because I have done it many many times. Most time trial enthusiasts will perform tests of new equipment by riding fixed distance at a set wattage and calculating the difference a bit of kit makes. Hence why in the UK TTers are known as "testers". overshoes and skinsuit are probably the best value aero gainz you can get for the money.
It’s like you’re replying to a different post. I not disagreeing with anything you’ve posted there.
ukjim
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Re: The official cycling thread

Post by ukjim »

apols I am tired...
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