Fozzie Out

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obelixtim
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Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

Don't see a thread about this.

After todays shambles, one needs to be initiated because I'm sure there will be a lot of traction on this topic. Today was a sign of things to come. I don't have much expectation that he'll prove me wrong.

Shit selections, no passion, no apparent game plan, no direction on the park. Wobs dominated all over the park. JK was right to say a draw is actually a loss for the ABs.

Cane had a good game, but a bit like Read, didn't seem to be in control of things captaincy wise.

The buck stops with the coach.
Last edited by obelixtim on Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Kahu
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Kahu »

ABs 20+ next week
obelixtim
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

Kahu wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:00 am ABs 20+ next week
People were saying that this week. In fact, some were saying ABs by 40.

Fozzie as we all expected, isn't a coaches arsehole.
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Kahu
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Kahu »

I didn't think we were bad at all. I thought the Wallabies played out of their skins and were lucky to come away with the draw. I had $50 on the Wallabies 1-7 at the TAB.

The midfield has lots of potential and we will be better with Beauden at the back with McKenzie coming off the bench. Coles for mine is the best Hooker we have and I'd like to see him start every game he is fit.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by kiwigreg369 »

obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:56 am Don't see a thread about this.

After todays shambles, one needs to be initiated because I'm sure there will be a lot of traction on this topic. Today was a sign of things to come. I don't have much expectation that he'll prove me wrong.

Shit selections, no passion, no apparent game plan, no direction on the park. Wobs dominated all over the park. JK was right to say a draw is actually a loss for the ABs.

Cane had a good game, but a bit like Read, didn't seem to be in control of things captaincy wise.

The buck stops with the coach.
The way Cane was signalling back for the drop kick at the end might be evidence here. he had a good game personally - tackle machine.

On the team they could do a few things:
- switch BB for RMO (rolls royce pack and all that)
- switch midfield for one that's more impactful (ALB & Lumpy)
- play wingers on the wing, and a different type of fullback - in come Clarke & Jordan ...

I wouldn't do that. Not sure of any injuries but i would go with the same team - assuming BB is coming back in per original selection.
tubbyj
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by tubbyj »

Fozzie is not up to it despite being a nice enough bloke. As a Crusaders fan it is Todd Blackadder deja vu. You know the NZRU are going to a waste a huge amount of time finding out what is obvious from day one and their is nothing that can be done about it. You can basically wipe any dreams of 2023 WC success if Foster serves the whole term. Must be pretty disheartening for any player who is capable of seeing the obvious.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Peaches »

Seemed like he was pretty stoked they drew in the presser what a loser
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by jdogscoop »

tubbyj wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:52 am Fozzie is not up to it despite being a nice enough bloke. As a Crusaders fan it is Todd Blackadder deja vu. You know the NZRU are going to a waste a huge amount of time finding out what is obvious from day one and their is nothing that can be done about it. You can basically wipe any dreams of 2023 WC success if Foster serves the whole term. Must be pretty disheartening for any player who is capable of seeing the obvious.
Absolutely.

It's also disheartening to see veteran posters like kiwigreg trot out the "rolls royce pack" horse shit when it comes to R Mo v BB.

If that is the case, why was BB so ineffectual behind the "Rolls Royce" forward pack that was the All Black pack from 2017 onwards, you fuckingGimp?

So much so they had to replace BB from behind the "Rolls Royce" forward pack with R Mo behind the same "Rolls Royce" forward pack.
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kiwigreg369
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by kiwigreg369 »

Jdog - I cant be arsed finding the image / gif ... but that’s the joke/point.

Across the bored - in my view - the team was not good enough as a team. Some people, e.g. Cane, played a little bit better but not enough and not well enough as a team.

Hence the reason they should go with the original team selection (not that DMAC played badly, just BB is better).
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by booji boy »

How would that match have gone with Razor Robertson coaching the AB's? I reckon we would have seen a much more well drilled, structured performance with the AB's running out comfortable winners. Instead we get this entirely predictable shambles served up by Foster.

Is our 34 year record at Eden Park under threat? I think so.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by towny »

booji boy wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:06 pm How would that match have gone with Razor Robertson coaching the AB's? I reckon we would have seen a much more well drilled, structured performance with the AB's running out comfortable winners. Instead we get this entirely predictable shambles served up by Foster.

Is our 34 year record at Eden Park under threat? I think so.
What if the AB players aren’t as good as the ones in gold? Next week, for the first time in a generation, the most talented player in a Bledisloe will be a Wallaby. I’m not saying we will win, but man for man, I don’t think there is the gap between these sides that you take for granted.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by GotheCanes »

I expect to see no coloured hair next week and all in black boots or Cane and Fozzie can both leave. Anything more than a head nod after scoring a try should be an automatic 1 game ban
obelixtim
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

towny wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:12 pm
booji boy wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:06 pm How would that match have gone with Razor Robertson coaching the AB's? I reckon we would have seen a much more well drilled, structured performance with the AB's running out comfortable winners. Instead we get this entirely predictable shambles served up by Foster.

Is our 34 year record at Eden Park under threat? I think so.
What if the AB players aren’t as good as the ones in gold? Next week, for the first time in a generation, the most talented player in a Bledisloe will be a Wallaby. I’m not saying we will win, but man for man, I don’t think there is the gap between these sides that you take for granted.
Its not a question of talent. There are talented players on both sides. Kiwis are unhappy with the teamwork on display. The Wobs were superior in that aspect yesterday. And the doubts about Fozzie have been there since his time as a coach in Soup. A lot of people are unhappy with him as AB guru. Just as you guys were with Cheika.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Mog The Almighty »

obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:56 am Don't see a thread about this.

After todays shambles, one needs to be initiated because I'm sure there will be a lot of traction on this topic. Today was a sign of things to come. I don't have much expectation that he'll prove me wrong.

Shit selections, no passion, no apparent game plan, no direction on the park. Wobs dominated all over the park. JK was right to say a draw is actually a loss for the ABs.

Cane had a good game, but a bit like Read, didn't seem to be in control of things captaincy wise.

The buck stops with the coach.
Complete bullshit.

The All Blacks were, as always, almost superhuman.

They made 190 tackles to the Wallabies 90. Any normal team would get a cricket score put on them. But they kept calm, turned the ball over at all the right times and retain their uncanny ability to move the ball from being pumped under their own line the scoring on the other end in about 0.5 seconds. Completely typical All Blacks.

Credit should go to the best Wallaby team and performance we've seen in almost a decade for the game being close and competitive. Not a bad AB performance because it simply was not. The ABs in that form would have put 50 on most teams.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by booji boy »

towny wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:12 pm
booji boy wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:06 pm How would that match have gone with Razor Robertson coaching the AB's? I reckon we would have seen a much more well drilled, structured performance with the AB's running out comfortable winners. Instead we get this entirely predictable shambles served up by Foster.

Is our 34 year record at Eden Park under threat? I think so.
What if the AB players aren’t as good as the ones in gold? Next week, for the first time in a generation, the most talented player in a Bledisloe will be a Wallaby. I’m not saying we will win, but man for man, I don’t think there is the gap between these sides that you take for granted.
In a nutshell I'm saying Rennie is a much better coach than Foster. If the playing groups are similarly talented the better drilled side will win. I think the Wallabies have a huge opportunity to win the Bledisloe this year. It's now a three test series and regardless of this weeks result at Eden Park the Wallabies have two home games out of three. Advantage Wallabies.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by towny »

Rennie is a very good coach, but he’d have to be Mr Miyagi to undo the mental scars of a generation in a few weeks.

It would be great if the Wallabies play well next week, but a win at Eden Park would be long odds.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:45 pm
obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:56 am Don't see a thread about this.

After todays shambles, one needs to be initiated because I'm sure there will be a lot of traction on this topic. Today was a sign of things to come. I don't have much expectation that he'll prove me wrong.

Shit selections, no passion, no apparent game plan, no direction on the park. Wobs dominated all over the park. JK was right to say a draw is actually a loss for the ABs.

Cane had a good game, but a bit like Read, didn't seem to be in control of things captaincy wise.

The buck stops with the coach.
Complete bullshit.

The All Blacks were, as always, almost superhuman.

They made 190 tackles to the Wallabies 90. Any normal team would get a cricket score put on them. But they kept calm, turned the ball over at all the right times and retain their uncanny ability to move the ball from being pumped under their own line the scoring on the other end in about 0.5 seconds. Completely typical All Blacks.

Credit should go to the best Wallaby team and performance we've seen in almost a decade for the game being close and competitive. Not a bad AB performance because it simply was not. The ABs in that form would have put 50 on most teams.
Nah, if the ABs were as good as you say, they would have made the Wobs make 190 tackles. That is the issue.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

Peaches wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:31 am Seemed like he was pretty stoked they drew in the presser what a loser

I didn't see that. He should have been spewing. But I guess he can't blame himself, can he?
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Kahu
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Kahu »

TY MOG for some sanity.

The ABs have not had a dominant forward pack (tight 5) for a few years. We defended well. Australia played well and they would have put many points on many sides with the mood they were in yesterday.

I'm not the biggest fan of Fozzie either but it's sad to see the critics with the knives at his throat immediately. There are AB supporters that want him to fail and would rather see the ABs lose in order to justify their dislike of the man.

I have no doubt the ABs can maintain intensity and perhaps even pick it up even with lineup changes. I dont think the Wallabies can.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

Kahu wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:18 pm TY MOG for some sanity.

The ABs have not had a dominant forward pack (tight 5) for a few years. We defended well. Australia played well and they would have put many points on many sides with the mood they were in yesterday.

I'm not the biggest fan of Fozzie either but it's sad to see the critics with the knives at his throat immediately. There are AB supporters that want him to fail and would rather see the ABs lose in order to justify their dislike of the man.

I have no doubt the ABs can maintain intensity and perhaps even pick it up even with lineup changes. I dont think the Wallabies can.
Nah. No one wants the ABs to lose for that reason. An AB supporter doesn't necessarily have to be a Fozzie supporter. As for knives at his throat "Immediately", we knew his record, and hoped he would improve. What we saw on Sunday was a team that didn't seem to have a game plan, lacked intensity and hunger, were clueless on attack, and had questionable selections (players out of position). Seems to be a continuation of the mucking around we've seen over the last couple of seasons.

This is the ABs. He's had a whole year to get his shit together. No excuses. The Wobs played well, no doubt about that. I hope the ABs win well next weekend, but it would not surprise me if they don't. The buck stops with him, its irrelevant if its test number 1 or test number 20 for him.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Kahu »

You might believe all that but I don't. There are many Kiwi's who want the ABs to fail now so Fozzie is sacked before the world cup. A lot of Kiwis are essentially plum.

The ABs played alright. Better than they did against England anyway. Room for improvement sure, there always is. Games are often turned by individual mistakes or pieces of excellence. For all we know if Rieko had scored that try the ABs come out in the 2nd half and put 30 points on the board.

Whilst I wouldn't have chosen Fozzie or Cane as my Coach & Captain I'm going to hold fire unless disaster occurs.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by wamberal »

Kahu wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:18 pm I have no doubt the ABs can maintain intensity and perhaps even pick it up even with lineup changes. I dont think the Wallabies can.
Bear in mind we had two players making their debuts. We also did enough to win. Rennie's first game with this squad. The most promising young player of a generation not available. Your players have had a far better lead up in terms of actual rugby played. Eden Park as a ground might just favour our playing style a bit more than the Cake Tin, not to mention the weather conditions.

The Wallabies can certainly play better, and maybe they can kick their goals.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Enzedder »

Poor bugger had to deal with the loss of BBBR - no side could handle that loss without a huge drop off in form.

Come back Brodie.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Mr Mike »

He has done a terrific job of managing expectations.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by koroke hangareka »

Planet Rugby has written Fossie off, yet unaccountably RNZ persist with him. It's weird and disturbing.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by El Flash »

GotheCanes wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:27 pm I expect to see no coloured hair next week and all in black boots or Cane and Fozzie can both leave. Anything more than a head nod after scoring a try should be an automatic 1 game ban
Agree entirely. The showboating throughout the Aoteoroa & now Mitre 10 is out of control. I can understand to a point these young up & comers keen to stand out for their respective provinces but the looks on some of those "old" AB legends says it all when it comes to showboating in an AB jersey. Leave that to the overpaid Poms.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by El Flash »

obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:04 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:45 pm
obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:56 am Don't see a thread about this.

After todays shambles, one needs to be initiated because I'm sure there will be a lot of traction on this topic. Today was a sign of things to come. I don't have much expectation that he'll prove me wrong.

Shit selections, no passion, no apparent game plan, no direction on the park. Wobs dominated all over the park. JK was right to say a draw is actually a loss for the ABs.

Cane had a good game, but a bit like Read, didn't seem to be in control of things captaincy wise.

The buck stops with the coach.
Complete bullshit.

The All Blacks were, as always, almost superhuman.

They made 190 tackles to the Wallabies 90. Any normal team would get a cricket score put on them. But they kept calm, turned the ball over at all the right times and retain their uncanny ability to move the ball from being pumped under their own line the scoring on the other end in about 0.5 seconds. Completely typical All Blacks.

Credit should go to the best Wallaby team and performance we've seen in almost a decade for the game being close and competitive. Not a bad AB performance because it simply was not. The ABs in that form would have put 50 on most teams.
Nah, if the ABs were as good as you say, they would have made the Wobs make 190 tackles. That is the issue.
Agree with obelixtim. Richie didn't have his best game. Reiko was found wanting on defence against an average 3/4 line opposition & Jordie needs to be back at 15.
Frizzell went missing completely. Ardie was great but needs to be at 6 with Sotutu on the back.
The AB's were not superhuman. They were disappointing. Defence was great but they should never have had to make 190 tackles in the first place.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Salient »

obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:03 am
Kahu wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 8:00 am ABs 20+ next week
People were saying that this week. In fact, some were saying ABs by 40.

Fozzie as we all expected, isn't a coaches arsehole.
The Blackness traditionally start each season with a poor performance, waiting on the next installment to see if they can't get their house in order :nod:
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Post by Tehui »

koroke hangareka wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:03 am Planet Rugby has written Fossie off, yet unaccountably RNZ persist with him. It's weird and disturbing.
Isn't there something in the rugby meritocracy constitution that allows Planet Rugby the right of veto?
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by koroke hangareka »

You'd think so, wouldn't you?
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

koroke hangareka wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:03 am Planet Rugby has written Fossie off, yet unaccountably RNZ persist with him. It's weird and disturbing.
Wait till we lose the Bled. This thread will go nuts.

As it is, I expect it to stay around for a while and generate hundreds of pages.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by eldanielfire »

koroke hangareka wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 3:03 am Planet Rugby has written Fossie off, yet unaccountably RNZ persist with him. It's weird and disturbing.
Well to give some credit to RNZ, they have seen Henry, Hansen and Fozzie all coach and speak to the players. Likewise they may understand that the current set of talent available is following a long generation of all time greats. Where even the best players in the squad (Beauden Barrett, Sam Cane) are not as complete a player as those than came prior (Carter, Richie McCaw) and thus results won't quite be as strong as before.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by brat »

El Flash wrote: Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:58 am
obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 9:04 pm
Mog The Almighty wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:45 pm
obelixtim wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 7:56 am Don't see a thread about this.

After todays shambles, one needs to be initiated because I'm sure there will be a lot of traction on this topic. Today was a sign of things to come. I don't have much expectation that he'll prove me wrong.

Shit selections, no passion, no apparent game plan, no direction on the park. Wobs dominated all over the park. JK was right to say a draw is actually a loss for the ABs.

Cane had a good game, but a bit like Read, didn't seem to be in control of things captaincy wise.

The buck stops with the coach.
Complete bullshit.

The All Blacks were, as always, almost superhuman.

They made 190 tackles to the Wallabies 90. Any normal team would get a cricket score put on them. But they kept calm, turned the ball over at all the right times and retain their uncanny ability to move the ball from being pumped under their own line the scoring on the other end in about 0.5 seconds. Completely typical All Blacks.

Credit should go to the best Wallaby team and performance we've seen in almost a decade for the game being close and competitive. Not a bad AB performance because it simply was not. The ABs in that form would have put 50 on most teams.
Nah, if the ABs were as good as you say, they would have made the Wobs make 190 tackles. That is the issue.
Agree with obelixtim. Richie didn't have his best game. Reiko was found wanting on defence against an average 3/4 line opposition & Jordie needs to be back at 15.
Frizzell went missing completely. Ardie was great but needs to be at 6 with Sotutu on the back.
The AB's were not superhuman. They were disappointing. Defence was great but they should never have had to make 190 tackles in the first place.
Yep our midfield defence was bad

A lot of midfield play is about combinations.. especially on defence

Foster needs to find our best combination and just stick with it - the issue is we have so much talent in midfield the temptation is to keep swapping players

In some ways it would’ve been better if reiko wasn’t playing centre - for the first time in a long time our wing stocks are not that high.. conversely our midfield stocks are high
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by obelixtim »

Joe Moody
Codie Taylor
Ofa Tuungafasi
Patrick Tuipulotu
Tupou Vaa'i
Shannon Frizell
Sam Cane (c)
Ardie Savea
Aaron Smith
Richie Mo'unga
Caleb Clarke
Jack Goodhue
Anton Lienert-Brown
Jordie Barrett
Beauden Barrett
Reserves: Dane Coles, Alex Hodgman, Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Hoskins Sotutu, TJ Perenara, Rieko Ioane, Damian McKenzie.
He still can't figure that ALB and Goodhue are in the wrong slots. JB on the wing. Meh. Big Karl dumped and replaced by a newbie. Scooter hasn't played a game for quite a while, but with big Sam out, maybe he's taking a punt on that.

PT and Frizzy need to bring a bit of bash to the game.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by tubbyj »

Sir Graham Henry says NZ Rugby 'c..ked' up by making Ian Foster All Blacks coach
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all ... acks-coach

Bit strange because as the article says he was on the selection panel. So he is obviously saying one of 2 things.

A. the selection panel didn't recommend Foster but the NZRU board ignored them and appointed him anyway. or B. They wanted Rennie, Joseph, Schmidt etc but the NZRU effectively forced them out of the running and left them with only 2 candidates they didn't rate of which Foster was the slightly better option.

I must say I favoured Rennie when the process began as well but given a straight choice between Foster and Robertson you would go with Robertson every time to heck with his inexperience at least he would have kept the fans, sponsors and media engaged. As it is Fosters reign seems likely to at best be a continuation of Steve Hansens last 4 years ie just getting through by the skin of their teeth and living off past glories and reputation (mainly built by Henry, Wayne Smith, Richie McCaw and Dan Carter).
Last edited by tubbyj on Fri Oct 16, 2020 9:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by tubbyj »

Just to emphasis what we are in probably going to see drawn out over his entire reign until his inevitable failure in 2023
Coaching popularity contest overshadows Bledisloe series

OPINION: New All Blacks coach Ian Foster is on a hiding to nothing in the Bledisloe Cup series.

Judging by the reaction to the losing 16-all draw in grotty weather at Wellington, most praise has been directed the way of Wallabies coach Dave Rennie.

Foster was an unpopular choice nationwide by NZ Rugby, his appointment pre-ordained two to three years out and continuing the Henry-Hansen dynasty. Foster needed to win Sunday's test to get Rennie and the equally popular reject, Scott Robertson, off his back.

This could cloud the whole series and might be to the All Blacks' detriment.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standa ... loe-series

Doubt Fosters unpopularity is going to disappear any time soon even if he gets a few wins under his belt. It will simmer away in the background and resurface every time the team under-performs. The only answer to it will be a win in the 2023 WC but what damage to the All Blacks in the next 3 years until then and if he fails (which is likely) it will really hurt NZ rugby with the majority of revenue coming from the All Blacks. IMO the appointment of Foster was a far worse decision by the NZR board and administration than anything they are currently doing regarding a future TransTasman competition and The Rugby Championship.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by towny »

obelixtim wrote: Thu Oct 15, 2020 11:44 pm
Joe Moody
Codie Taylor
Ofa Tuungafasi
Patrick Tuipulotu
Tupou Vaa'i
Shannon Frizell
Sam Cane (c)
Ardie Savea
Aaron Smith
Richie Mo'unga
Caleb Clarke
Jack Goodhue
Anton Lienert-Brown
Jordie Barrett
Beauden Barrett
Reserves: Dane Coles, Alex Hodgman, Nepo Laulala, Scott Barrett, Hoskins Sotutu, TJ Perenara, Rieko Ioane, Damian McKenzie.
He still can't figure that ALB and Goodhue are in the wrong slots. JB on the wing. Meh. Big Karl dumped and replaced by a newbie. Scooter hasn't played a game for quite a while, but with big Sam out, maybe he's taking a punt on that.

PT and Frizzy need to bring a bit of bash to the game.
If ALB is in the team..... just saying.
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by les@mooloolaba »

The jury is still out for me, but I am wavering because of his selections, (ALB & Godhue should be swapped)

I am giving one last chance. (I think i did this many times when he was our coach for the Chiefs)
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by kiwigreg369 »

les@mooloolaba wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 10:52 pm The jury is still out for me, but I am wavering because of his selections, (ALB & Godhue should be swapped)

I am giving one last chance. (I think i did this many times when he was our coach for the Chiefs)
I’m trying to be fair to Foster - but it’s tough after his Chiefs time. I would have gone with Rennie and Gatland before Foster.

So he gets time - that’s only fair - but I suspect the declining quality of the team (based on the quality of individuals) will not help him.

Interesting from the above that Henry et al chose Foster over Robertson - hard to see when outside this circle what Foster did right or Robertson did wrong. Did it come down to fit with the union and Robertson is too much his own man / do it his way?
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Enzedder
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Re: Fozzie Out

Post by Enzedder »

Foster will never fail to disappoint. He will also disappoint us when he fails.

It was always like this. Like John Parker he will deliver us the odd good result.

All you can do is hope that the next one will be that good one.
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