OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

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Mullet 2
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Mullet 2 »

ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:33 pm I'll see your RTE with my BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54117766
You want to abolish the BBC right and remove the licence fee because they are untrustworthy and biased?
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:33 pm I'll see your RTE with my BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54117766
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

Mullet 2 wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:12 pm Yes really


No “minister” made a public statement.....


Liar.
ChipSpike
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:33 pm I'll see your RTE with my BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54117766
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:33 pm I'll see your RTE with my BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54117766
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not anymore. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not any more. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.


No one has broken international law.

Any proposed break in international law would only follow if the EU carried out the food threat you’re denying they made.

If no threat or action , then no law breach. Simple.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

Well whatever way you like to view the picture, around the world, especially amongst EU countries, and Europe as a whole, people laugh now when your government tries to berate other countries for breaking laws. The view of the UK as a standard bearer for upholding international law is in tatters. It will take a long long time to get back the trust and respect. But the sad thing is it’s really all due to a small group of charlatans, incompetents who shouldn’t be at the wheel of a ferris wheel no mind a government.
Last edited by YOYO on Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:08 pm Well whatever way you like to view the picture, around the world, especially amongst EU countries, and Europe as a whole, people laugh now when your government tries to berate other countries for breaking laws. The view of the UK as a standard bearer for upholding international law is in tatters. It will take a long long time to get back the trust and respect. But the sad thing is it’s really all due to a small group of charlatans, incompetents who shouldn’t be at the wheel of a ferris while no mind a government.


Everyone would understand if the EU aggressively tried to annex NI.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.


Making direct threats on food security during a negotiation is what’s incendiary.

The fact that the WA was designed to threaten the UK in this way is worse.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:25 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.


Making direct threats on food security during a negotiation is what’s incendiary.

The fact that the WA was designed to threaten the UK in this way is worse.
The Irish government came up with the Backstop clause and requested that it be added in the WA because they knew (from centuries of history) that the UK government wasn’t to be trusted.. and so it came to pass. The GFA otherwise was under risk of being broken by your government. Our government stood up for the island to help keep peace and prosperity amongst our people.

The fact that your government wanted to break the GFA before the WA was finally agreed and then after it was signed, is pure incendiary.
ChipSpike
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not anymore. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.
Sorry you're saying people outside the UK do not trust the BBC anymore? Do you have a source for that, because when I look for internationally trusted new sources, like as not the BBC is up there. For instance Reuters surveyed the US (your Irish mates ;>) and identified the BBC as more trustworthy than all other major US brands.
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:36 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:25 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.


Making direct threats on food security during a negotiation is what’s incendiary.

The fact that the WA was designed to threaten the UK in this way is worse.
The Irish government came up with the Backstop clause and requested that it be added in the WA because they knew (from centuries of history) that the UK government wasn’t to be trusted.. and so it came to pass. The GFA otherwise was under risk of being broken by your government. Our government stood up for the island to help keep peace and prosperity amongst our people.

The fact that your government wanted to break the GFA before the WA was finally agreed and then after it was signed, is pure incendiary.


There’s no backstop is there?

Only direct interference in the food supply to NI invokes the IMA.

The only disrespect to the GFA is the threat to use the food supply to the people of NI.
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camroc1
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by camroc1 »

bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:45 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:36 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:25 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.


Making direct threats on food security during a negotiation is what’s incendiary.

The fact that the WA was designed to threaten the UK in this way is worse.
The Irish government came up with the Backstop clause and requested that it be added in the WA because they knew (from centuries of history) that the UK government wasn’t to be trusted.. and so it came to pass. The GFA otherwise was under risk of being broken by your government. Our government stood up for the island to help keep peace and prosperity amongst our people.

The fact that your government wanted to break the GFA before the WA was finally agreed and then after it was signed, is pure incendiary.


There’s no backstop is there?

Only direct interference in the food supply to NI invokes the IMA.

The only disrespect to the GFA is the threat to use the food supply to the people of NI.
Really ?

That's why Biden had to intervene when news of the UKs mendaciousness came to him ?
Joe Biden warns trade deal between UK and US is 'contingent upon respect' for Good Friday Agreement
https://www.thejournal.ie/joe-biden-nor ... 1-Sep2020/
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

The Internal market bill guarantees the GFA. The threat to the UK internal market threatens it.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:52 pm The Internal market bill guarantees the GFA. The threat to the UK internal market threatens it.
How does it do that now?
It’s inciting a renewal of the Troubles is what it’s doing.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

On a separate note, it’s a pity the British government didn’t show the same concern for feeding the Irish people in the region that later became Northern Ireland during the famine years as has it does now.
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AND-y
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by AND-y »

ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:33 pm I'll see your RTE with my BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-54117766
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
:lol: :lol: Do the English ever stop with their deluded exceptionalism
Last edited by AND-y on Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:22 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:52 pm The Internal market bill guarantees the GFA. The threat to the UK internal market threatens it.
How does it do that now?
It’s inciting a renewal of the Troubles is what it’s doing.


Because the GFA guarantees NI’s place in the Union.


You guys often forget that the GFA was written for 2 parties.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not anymore. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.
The BBC cant be trusted now? Its the most reliable news in the world FFS :?
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AND-y
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by AND-y »

Willie Falloon wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:35 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not anymore. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.
The BBC cant be trusted now? Its the most reliable news in the world FFS :?

Or the Angles little bitches for that matter.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:33 pm On a separate note, it’s a pity the British government didn’t show the same concern for feeding the Irish people in the region that later became Northern Ireland during the famine years as has it does now.


Lessons learnt.
shereblue
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by shereblue »

bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:25 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.
........ The fact that the WA was designed to threaten the UK in this way is worse.
That's horrendous. How could a sovereign nation ever sign up to it? :shock:

What kind of mental incompetent would agree, oust Parliamentary scrutiny, base an election campaign on and then sign such an agreement?
Last edited by shereblue on Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Willie Falloon
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

camroc1 wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:47 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:45 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:36 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:25 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.


Making direct threats on food security during a negotiation is what’s incendiary.

The fact that the WA was designed to threaten the UK in this way is worse.
The Irish government came up with the Backstop clause and requested that it be added in the WA because they knew (from centuries of history) that the UK government wasn’t to be trusted.. and so it came to pass. The GFA otherwise was under risk of being broken by your government. Our government stood up for the island to help keep peace and prosperity amongst our people.

The fact that your government wanted to break the GFA before the WA was finally agreed and then after it was signed, is pure incendiary.


There’s no backstop is there?

Only direct interference in the food supply to NI invokes the IMA.

The only disrespect to the GFA is the threat to use the food supply to the people of NI.
Really ?

That's why Biden had to intervene when news of the UKs mendaciousness came to him ?
Joe Biden warns trade deal between UK and US is 'contingent upon respect' for Good Friday Agreement
https://www.thejournal.ie/joe-biden-nor ... 1-Sep2020/
GFA works both ways, you wingnut. :uhoh: It is to safeguards the right of unionist people as much as anyone, something Dublin keeps forgetting
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

shereblue wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:37 pm
bimboman wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:25 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.
........ The fact that the WA was designed to threaten the UK in this way is worse.
That's horrendous. How could a sovereign nation ever sign up to it? :shock:

What kind of mental incompetent would agree, oust Parliamentary scrutiny, base an election campaign on and then sign such an agreement?


They had to play out the “good faith” clauses ....
ChipSpike
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

AND-y wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:35 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:34 pm
Hold on, I haven’t read your article yet, but before I do I want to let you know the BBC is controlled by the Tory government. BBC hasn’t a patch on RTE when it comes to truth and integrity.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
:lol: :lol: Do the English ever stop with their deluded exceptionalism
its British last time I looked. And it is one of the most trusted news sources worldwide, ask anyone.
piquant
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by piquant »

Willie Falloon wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:35 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
ovalball wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:37 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not anymore. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.
The BBC cant be trusted now? Its the most reliable news in the world FFS :?
It's demonstrably not trusted by the Tory government. Boris and Co view the BBC with the same suspicion as they do the judges and these days the CoE
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Willie Falloon
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by Willie Falloon »

piquant wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:56 pm
Willie Falloon wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:35 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not anymore. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.
The BBC cant be trusted now? Its the most reliable news in the world FFS :?
It's demonstrably not trusted by the Tory government. Boris and Co view the BBC with the same suspicion as they do the judges and these days the CoE
Those damn judges and CoE reverends. :thumbdown: :|
ChipSpike
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by ChipSpike »

piquant wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:56 pm
Willie Falloon wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 2:35 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 pm
ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:53 pm
YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:41 pm
BBC news and reporting of Brexit has been inconsistent at best. It’s board is loaded with Tories.
You're being silly now. The Beeb is one of the most trusted news organisation worldwide.
Maybe in the past but not anymore. That’s the sorry truth from outside the UK. Similar to how the UK government is not trusted. Break international law, no problem.
The BBC cant be trusted now? Its the most reliable news in the world FFS :?
It's demonstrably not trusted by the Tory government. Boris and Co view the BBC with the same suspicion as they do the judges and these days the CoE
Hang on, Yoyo thinks the BBC is run by government stooges.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

While the BBC has not gone full scale stooge, Boris and his stooges are trying to take full control.
UK Prime Minister’s Boris Johnson Conservative administration is reported to have offered two of the top jobs in media to outspoken critics of the BBC, and known supporters of the government’s Brexit stance.

The Sunday Times says that Paul Dacre, the former editor of the Daily Mail, is Johnson’s choice to become chairman of broadcasting watchdog Ofcom, while Lord Moore, the former editor of the Daily Telegraph has been asked by the Prime Minister to take up the post of BBC chairman.

The Labour opposition has accused the government of “interfering in an open process and appointment”, with Jo Stevens, the shadow culture secretary, suggesting that the whole idea of announcing appointments before a process has actually taken place is “a bit strange” and that the public will be wondering where the government’s priorities are on the matter. “Why are they worrying and interfering in an open process and appointment for BBC and head of Ofcom, both two very senior independent public service posts that carry significant salaries? Why are the government interfering in that sort of thing, when they should be concentrating on getting a grip on test and trace, keeping coronavirus rates under control and getting the economy back on track?”

The appointment of BBC chairman is supposed to be an open process, with Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport understood to be rushing to finalise plans to publish the job description for the role and invite applications this week. A similar public applications process for the Ofcom chairmanship is expected to open next month.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:19 pm While the BBC has not gone full scale stooge, Boris and his stooges are trying to take full control.
UK Prime Minister’s Boris Johnson Conservative administration is reported to have offered two of the top jobs in media to outspoken critics of the BBC, and known supporters of the government’s Brexit stance.

The Sunday Times says that Paul Dacre, the former editor of the Daily Mail, is Johnson’s choice to become chairman of broadcasting watchdog Ofcom, while Lord Moore, the former editor of the Daily Telegraph has been asked by the Prime Minister to take up the post of BBC chairman.

The Labour opposition has accused the government of “interfering in an open process and appointment”, with Jo Stevens, the shadow culture secretary, suggesting that the whole idea of announcing appointments before a process has actually taken place is “a bit strange” and that the public will be wondering where the government’s priorities are on the matter. “Why are they worrying and interfering in an open process and appointment for BBC and head of Ofcom, both two very senior independent public service posts that carry significant salaries? Why are the government interfering in that sort of thing, when they should be concentrating on getting a grip on test and trace, keeping coronavirus rates under control and getting the economy back on track?”

The appointment of BBC chairman is supposed to be an open process, with Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport understood to be rushing to finalise plans to publish the job description for the role and invite applications this week. A similar public applications process for the Ofcom chairmanship is expected to open next month.

The government appointing people in charge of public finances “shocker”.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.co ... e-12083360

Tory MP Steve Baker, a Brexiteer, told Sky News he looked forward to the media being "a bit more conservative and pragmatic in what is being reported" if Lord Moore and Mr Dacre are given the roles.

But Labour criticised the government following the reports of the pair's pending appointments.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:23 pm https://www.google.ie/amp/s/news.sky.co ... e-12083360

Tory MP Steve Baker, a Brexiteer, told Sky News he looked forward to the media being "a bit more conservative and pragmatic in what is being reported" if Lord Moore and Mr Dacre are given the roles.

But Labour criticised the government following the reports of the pair's pending appointments.

What is your point?
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

Impartiality is at stake. The BBC is a public broadcaster, not a state broadcaster.
BBC chair: leak of No 10's choice attempts to destroy independence of appointments

Jean Seaton, University of Westminster

October 1, 2020 12.50pm BST
“Leaks” from No 10 to the Sunday Times published on September 27 about the anointing of Charles Moore and Paul Dacre as the next chairs of the BBC and Ofcom may have been intended to distract the British public from the government’s performance on COVID-19. Getting people into a lather about the BBC is a good tactic. I have, however, no doubt that this is a serious proposition: these candidates are not merely being “floated”, they are the Downing Street choices.

Irrespective of the suitability of the putative candidates, the leaks have blown a hole in the carefully crafted process that has been designed to safeguard all public appointments from nepotism, improper commercial advantage and naked political pressure. Such processes protect all our important institutions, but because of its relationship to public information, the BBC has always been an especially delicate appointment. As an attempt to bully the BBC and, through the attack on Ofcom, all broadcasters, it is perturbing.

More widely, the leak implies a new politicisation of public life, where it is taken for granted that the currently vacant public roles will need to be filled by people who are not merely Conservative but only from that narrow fraction that is sympathetic to the particular strand of conservatism now in power, or members of the court around the prime minister, Boris Johnson. This narrows the pool of talent to a microscopic puddle.

Impartiality at stake

:nod: The BBC is a public broadcaster, not a state broadcaster. It certainly has a relationship with the state, but for nearly 100 years it has developed rules, habits, and values of creativity and impartiality that have protected it from interference. It is not perfect, but it is peerless. It is an institution that is relied upon by 438 million users globally and is the foundation of one of our most successful industries, the creative media. It belongs to everyone in Britain, and this universality means that it is obliged to serve all audiences.

Headshot of middle-aged man in a suit.
Charles Moore, a former editor of the Daily Telegraph and harsh critic of the BBC.
Trust in the integrity of its output depends on it being seen as independent from government or politicians. Its authority and reputation require the idea that it has editorial independence – if you like, the right to make mistakes. Consequently, its content is regulated, not by politicians, but by Ofcom. By the way, it is the regulatory overseeing of Ofcom in the public interest that has made Sky a great news channel (owned by the same company that owns Fox News, but vastly different in approach).

Chairs matter

While researching for my volume of the official history of the BBC, Pinkoes and Traitors: the BBC and the Nation 1970-1987, I delved a lot into the importance of the role of BBC chair. They hold the BBC to account and are responsible for the broadcaster delivering its services. They help ward off wrong and partisan political pressure, but also make sure the BBC responds to legitimate criticism. They are legally obliged to maintain the BBC’s impartiality. The chair cautions, advises, restrains, and adds insight. They must manage the creation of a board with the right skills to help continually reshape the BBC internally to meet contemporary challenges. A well-run board and a strong chair working with the BBC in the national interest is the cornerstone of an effective BBC.

In the past, the BBC has flourished when the chair and the director general have formed a powerful, cooperative but challenging team. Sir Hugh Greene and Arthur fforde, John Birt and Christopher Bland. Mark Thompson and Sir Michael Lyons and then Chris Patton. While they may have disagreed about editorial decisions or fought about commerce or remit or had to make tough decisions they have to be both working for the same values: to keep the BBC impartial, fearless, decent, independent and alive in the nation and the world’s imagination. They must share a belief in the BBC’s mission to “educate, inform and entertain”.

Anybody alarmed by the flood of misinformation during COVID-19 ought to want a confident BBC. Anybody watching the BBC coverage of the VJ day celebrations this year – thrown together in the middle of a pandemic – saw just that creativity for a national moment at its most warm and grand.

However, chairs can also be the nemesis for director generals. The great Hugh Carleton-Greene was seen off by Charles Hill, the chair that Harold Wilson brought over from ITV. Marmaduke Hussey saw off both Alasdair Milne, who had lost his capacity to deal with a hostile Thatcher government, but also the efficient, reforming Michael Checkland. As the BBC has become more exposed to political pressure, so the job has become more exposed. Although not all these “trojan horses” have been bad for the corporation, this is because they believed in the very idea of the BBC.

Tony Hall resigned earlier this year to ensure that David Clementi, the current chair, would have oversight of the appointment (by an independent panel) of a new director general before he was replaced as chair. In such niceties, propriety lives.

Public interest: the right way?

Norman Fowler, a cabinet minister in both Thatcher and Major governments, chaired the committee that produced the House of Lords report on the chairmanship of the BBC in 2007. It’s proposals for “greater separation of ministers from the appointments process to ensure public confidence” given the unique nature of the BBC were accepted. The secretary of state is required to appoint a selection panel including the chairman and the independent assessor. There should be a majority of non-political members and it has to be chaired by a non-political member.

It presciently added that if “ministers add or subtract any names from the shortlist this should immediately be made public through a written ministerial statement to Parliament. The names and details of the candidate should not be made public but the fact of ministerial involvement should be.” The name of only one candidate should then be passed to ministers “specifically to avoid the appointment of a candidate who might share their political priorities. The appointment should be vetted by Parliament.”

Head and shoulders shot of a middle-aged man in a suit and tie sitting at desk with his arms crossed.
Poacher turned gamekeeper? Paul Dacre is rumoured to be being considered as the next head of Ofcom. Iain Crockart/DMGT/PA Archive/PA Images
The appointment of a chair to Ofcom is similarly supposed to be open and transparent.

But, despite the opportunities the process offers for both the BBC and the government to discuss likely candidates, significant horse-trading can only take place before the formal process opens. You do not want to end up in public complaining about a candidate who then the government might push on through.

So the Sunday Times leaks, the crowning and the drinks, compromise everything – as they were meant to. They turn it into a political battleground and potentially open up any other candidates to contest and opposition. It is another classic manoeuvre: it is a “make any opponent an enemy of the people and then destroy them” tactic.

Process is vital

The process is finally overseen by the Public Appointments Committee. Peter Riddell, the public appointments commissioner, has to approve that the final outcome of the process is fair and above board. No one doubts Riddell’s decency, or indeed capacity: he is a public servant of great integrity who was the founding director of the Institute of Government. But the procedures over which he presides have been leapfrogged by the leak. He is robust – and he may need to be.

Meanwhile, Moore, a man of reputation and scholarship, has been seriously embarrassed by the leak that apparently crowned him BBC chair. He was, until November 2019, a member of that same Public Appointments Committee. His job was to be a guardian of the very process that has now been undermined. Lord Paul Bew – the chair of that committee must be seriously concerned about the reputation of the Public Appointments Committee. Lord Bew is a bruiser from Northern Irish politics (but also a wily and proper man). So the system may well fight back. But it is staggering that this is necessary.

The BBC is well placed to solve some of the epic problems that face broadcasting under its able and focused new director general Tim Davie. One American observer said to me that the BBC was “the only media organisation in the West that has the heft, expertise and power to take the defence of western values out onto a world stage”. We are, after all, in the middle of a cyberwar.

As I noted in a letter to the Financial Times dated September 30, co-authored with Timothy Garton Ash, Will Hutton and Damian Tambini, it matters to us all – and our safety – that such appointments are not made by leak, but by estimating fitting and proper talent in a decent process. Watch this space.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by bimboman »

Taking of bias.
Seaton is the widow of former Labour ‘intellectual’, MP, and historian Ben Pimlott. She is a regular contributor to the Guardian in defence of the Corporation, and she clearly believes in her many books of media analysis from her lofty role as Professor of Media Studies History at the University of Westminster that the BBC is the only bulwark against those nasty, encroaching hordes of the free-market media.
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YOYO
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Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

Post by YOYO »

    The BBC will just be a government mouthpiece aka Fox News. It’s simple as that.

    Charles Moore, a former editor of the Daily Telegraph and harsh critic of the BBC.
    A government ally and appointment.
    ChipSpike
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    Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

    Post by ChipSpike »

    YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:37 pm
      The BBC will just be a government mouthpiece aka Fox News. It’s simple as that.

      Charles Moore, a former editor of the Daily Telegraph and harsh critic of the BBC.
      A government ally and appointment.
      He's not running for it though. Who should the government appointment as Chairman, someone that the BBC establishment approves of?
      La soule
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      Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

      Post by La soule »

      YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 1:18 pm You’re starting to use incendiary language just like Boris did.

      Boris signs a WA after ratification from his government and then decides nah, I now want to go back on it. Then comes up with threats because the EU won’t allow him to change the WA. Boris and his cronies are a bunch of plonkers.
      Wounded animals tend to become extremely agressive.
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      YOYO
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      Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

      Post by YOYO »

      ChipSpike wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:42 pm
      YOYO wrote: Sun Oct 25, 2020 3:37 pm
        The BBC will just be a government mouthpiece aka Fox News. It’s simple as that.

        Charles Moore, a former editor of the Daily Telegraph and harsh critic of the BBC.
        A government ally and appointment.
        He's not running for it though. Who should the government appointment as Chairman, someone that the BBC establishment approves of?
        I imagine the outrage from the leak was strong.

        Let me leave you with this.
        ..it is quite easy to highlight how Fox News or the Daily Mail are owned by billionaires and are therefore obviously biased, the same cannot be said for the BBC.

        Because of its special funding arrangement, based on an annual licence fee from TV-watching households, the BBC is supposedly not answerable to corporate interests but to us, the people. Yet nothing could be further from the truth.

        The Tory government holds the purse strings and BBC management know it – hence the increasingly ‘soft’ approach being adopted by the corporation towards the current government, with BBC journalists being pressured to go along with this.

        Impartial broadcaster?
        As a public broadcaster, the BBC has a public remit to present “impartial news”. The BBC charter itself states:

        "We are independent, impartial and honest. We are committed to achieving the highest standards of accuracy and impartiality and strive to avoid knowingly or materially misleading our audiences."
        This impartiality, however, is about the same as that of the Bank of England, whose “independent” governors represent the mainstream strategists of British capital. In fact, impartiality and fairness within the broadcast media only legally applies during a general election.
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        YOYO
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        Re: OFFICIAL Brexit Thread

        Post by YOYO »

        The government no doubt interfered after Emily Maitlis was temporarily replaced as host of Newsnight by another after BBC bosses reprimanded her over a monologue in which she attacked the government’s handling of Dominic Cummings’ lockdown trip to Durham.
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