NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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towny
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:20 pm
Jerome Manning wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:16 pm Cool, we've got arguing honestly going.
The logical extension of your overly lazy example is that Transgender women should be banned from all sports. Which I think is immoral and is most likely illegal
No not all sports - only sports in which having gone through puberty as a male provides a strength advantage. Someone mentioned earlier that equestrian doesn't bother segregating by gender.

You and I are prioritising two different moral virtues here. You are prioritising protecting vulnerable members of a group. I am prioritising the physical safety of females in contact sports. These two virtues are in conflict with each other and there are massive trade-offs trying to reconcile the two. Disagreement doesn't mean that the other person is hateful or transphobic.
I'm supporting inclusion. Once you start making inclusion conditional, then it's a slippery slope to a non-inclusive society. What next, ban Samoan women playing Rugby because of "safety"? If "physical safety" is what you're protecting then you are going to have your work cut out for you with Rugby. Also, do you have data to support your claim that Trans women are a safety risk in Rugby? Surely if they are as dangerous as you are making out then you'd have some data to support your claims?
This is just gibberish.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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It's very easy for men to support inclusion. They're either including females in their sphere, whom they don't fear. Or males not in their sphere, which isn't their problem.
Last edited by CM11 on Fri May 07, 2021 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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If a grown man genuinely considers themselves to be 10 years older, what happens? They’re good to play right? You know, inclusion?

Or are we all ageist bastards?!
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Anonymous 1 »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:41 pm This debate just goes round and round in circles, being fuelled by homophobia and hatred.

If a Trans Woman is legally considered a woman than she has the right to participate in activities and recreation as a woman. Sporting bodies cannot strip an individual of their human rights and their identity just because some loud-mouth homophobes are disgusted by Transgender people. I am comfortable with sporting bodies imposing rules like maximum levels of testosterone like what has happened in this case, but legally and morally they have no choice but to find ways to include these individuals.
Fark that is there some global rule where men have to legally be considered female because they say pretty please
Last edited by Anonymous 1 on Fri May 07, 2021 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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CM11
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by CM11 »

towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:37 pm If a grown man genuinely considers themselves to be 10 years older, what happens? They’re good to play right? You know, inclusion?

Or are we all ageist bastards?!
Younger?

And you bring up that Dutch (?) guy who had a point when you saw his physical (and appearance).
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:35 pm It's very easy for men to support inclusion. They're either including females in their sphere, whom they don't fear. Or males not in their sphere, which isn't their problem.
Exactly! Men seem to be the most passionate supporting the rights of trans women who surprisingly seem to kick arse when it comes to playing against their new gender. I wonder what those women that miss out on opportunities think? I guess they’re just bigots unless they think it’s all awesome, right?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:38 pm
towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:37 pm If a grown man genuinely considers themselves to be 10 years older, what happens? They’re good to play right? You know, inclusion?

Or are we all ageist bastards?!
Younger?

And you bring up that Dutch (?) guy who had a point when you saw his physical (and appearance).
Younger or older - what does it matter? We should scrap age groups based on birth certificates and just let all people play in the age group they see themselves as.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Jerome Manning »

towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:40 pm
CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:35 pm It's very easy for men to support inclusion. They're either including females in their sphere, whom they don't fear. Or males not in their sphere, which isn't their problem.
Exactly! Men seem to be the most passionate supporting the rights of trans women who surprisingly seem to kick arse when it comes to playing against their new gender. I wonder what those women that miss out on opportunities think? I guess they’re just bigots unless they think it’s all awesome, right?
A guy called Rob Henderson wrote a very good article on "Luxury Beliefs" - it's on the google. Basically beliefs that someone can have to display their virtue but they pay no cost on if they're wrong - all the risk is externalised to another group. They don't have skin in the game.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:40 pm
CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:35 pm It's very easy for men to support inclusion. They're either including females in their sphere, whom they don't fear. Or males not in their sphere, which isn't their problem.
Exactly! Men seem to be the most passionate supporting the rights of trans women who surprisingly seem to kick arse when it comes to playing against their new gender. I wonder what those women that miss out on opportunities think? I guess they’re just bigots unless they think it’s all awesome, right?
Very weird comment in the context of this thread, which is basically a bunch of men passionately advocating for discrimination against Trans women.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Jerome Manning wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:44 pm
towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:40 pm
CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:35 pm It's very easy for men to support inclusion. They're either including females in their sphere, whom they don't fear. Or males not in their sphere, which isn't their problem.
Exactly! Men seem to be the most passionate supporting the rights of trans women who surprisingly seem to kick arse when it comes to playing against their new gender. I wonder what those women that miss out on opportunities think? I guess they’re just bigots unless they think it’s all awesome, right?
A guy called Rob Henderson wrote a very good article on "Luxury Beliefs" - it's on the google. Basically beliefs that someone can have to display their virtue but they pay no cost on if they're wrong - all the risk is externalised to another group. They don't have skin in the game.
Nice! I like that!
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:46 pm
towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:40 pm
CM11 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:35 pm It's very easy for men to support inclusion. They're either including females in their sphere, whom they don't fear. Or males not in their sphere, which isn't their problem.
Exactly! Men seem to be the most passionate supporting the rights of trans women who surprisingly seem to kick arse when it comes to playing against their new gender. I wonder what those women that miss out on opportunities think? I guess they’re just bigots unless they think it’s all awesome, right?
Very weird comment in the context of this thread, which is basically a bunch of men passionately advocating for discrimination against Trans women.
But you hate non-trans women and that’s pathetic. Why do you hate them?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by camroc1 »

This is literally a load of old bollox.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by guy smiley »

This is turning into a contest to see who can outwoke the otherwoke.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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It's simply a matter of inclusion. You cannot allow a situation where someone is considered a woman in every aspect of her life, but if she wants to play Rugby she must be a man when training and playing. That's just not reasonable or sustainable. That effectively shuts our sport off from Trans people. I have followed Rugby all my life but there is no way I can continue to follow the sport if genuine efforts aren't made to stop excluding Trans people from participating.

Anyway, fortunately Rugby Australia isn't run by the bigots on this thread, and they have embraced Trans people and have rules to encourage participation by Transgender people.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-transge ... by-matters
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:46 pm But you hate non-trans women and that’s pathetic. Why do you hate them?
Not true. I have utmost respect for all women and believe that they should all be free to live their lives as they see fit, and engage in whatever lawful activities they choose.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:52 pm It's simply a matter of inclusion. You cannot allow a situation where someone is considered a woman in every aspect of her life, but if she wants to play Rugby she must be a man when training and playing. That's just not reasonable or sustainable. That effectively shuts our sport off from Trans people. I have followed Rugby all my life but there is no way I would continue to follow the sport if it excluded Trans people from participating.

Anyway, fortunately Rugby Australia isn't run by the bigots on this thread, and they have embraced Trans people and have rules to encourage participation by Transgender people.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-transge ... by-matters
You’re excluding women that were born with the disadvantage of not having tentacles. How do you sleep at night?
I guess that doesn’t bother you. You didn’t miss out on anything. It’s not you that had to put up with this unfair physical disadvantage because of woke bullshit.

With every decision there is a trade-off. Your choice disadvantages a group that has finally got to the stage where they can make a living from sport. But f*ck them, right? No one is stopping trans-women play sport - but they have to play against men. That might suck for them but it’s too bad. Otherwise it’s not fair.

As Dave Chappell said, if Lebron James transitioned to a woman, could she still play in the NBA? Or would she be forced to play in the WNBA where she would score 800 points a game?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by guy smiley »

towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:07 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:52 pm It's simply a matter of inclusion. You cannot allow a situation where someone is considered a woman in every aspect of her life, but if she wants to play Rugby she must be a man when training and playing. That's just not reasonable or sustainable. That effectively shuts our sport off from Trans people. I have followed Rugby all my life but there is no way I would continue to follow the sport if it excluded Trans people from participating.

Anyway, fortunately Rugby Australia isn't run by the bigots on this thread, and they have embraced Trans people and have rules to encourage participation by Transgender people.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-transge ... by-matters
You’re excluding women that were born with the disadvantage of not having tentacles. How do you sleep at night?
I guess that doesn’t bother you. You didn’t miss out on anything. It’s not you that had to put up with this unfair physical disadvantage because of woke bullshit.

With every decision there is a trade-off. Your choice disadvantages a group that has finally got to the stage where they can make a living from sport. But f*ck them, right? No one is stopping trans-women play sport - but they have to play against men. That might suck for them but it’s too bad. Otherwise it’s not fair.

As Dave Chappell said, if Lebron James transitioned to a woman, could she still play in the NBA? Or would she be forced to play in the WNBA where she would score 800 points a game?
Reminds me, I need to fondle my tentacles.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:05 am
towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:46 pm But you hate non-trans women and that’s pathetic. Why do you hate them?
Not true. I have utmost respect for all women and believe that they should all be free to live their lives as they see fit, and engage in whatever lawful activities they choose.
But they aren’t free to avoid competing in professional sport against women that went through puberty with testicles, right? It’s not even about the strength. If Liam Mess transitioned, he would pole-axe the poor women because he grew up learning how to smash people in a way that women have never been exposed to. This is a can of worms that doesn’t have to be opened. These people are not being discriminated against, but sometimes life is unfair and in this case you don’t have the capability to remove this unfairness without making it very unfair for someone else.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:07 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:52 pm It's simply a matter of inclusion. You cannot allow a situation where someone is considered a woman in every aspect of her life, but if she wants to play Rugby she must be a man when training and playing. That's just not reasonable or sustainable. That effectively shuts our sport off from Trans people. I have followed Rugby all my life but there is no way I would continue to follow the sport if it excluded Trans people from participating.

Anyway, fortunately Rugby Australia isn't run by the bigots on this thread, and they have embraced Trans people and have rules to encourage participation by Transgender people.

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/why-transge ... by-matters
You’re excluding women that were born with the disadvantage of not having tentacles. How do you sleep at night?
I guess that doesn’t bother you. You didn’t miss out on anything. It’s not you that had to put up with this unfair physical disadvantage because of woke bullshit.

With every decision there is a trade-off. Your choice disadvantages a group that has finally got to the stage where they can make a living from sport. But f*ck them, right? No one is stopping trans-women play sport - but they have to play against men. That might suck for them but it’s too bad. Otherwise it’s not fair.

As Dave Chappell said, if Lebron James transitioned to a woman, could she still play in the NBA? Or would she be forced to play in the WNBA where she would score 800 points a game?
So just putting aside the fact that most sports organisation, like World Rugby, don't allow Trans women to play professionally. And just putting aside the fact that you hate Trans people. If you expect Tans women to play against men, which means that they need to be a man on match day, and presumably shower and get changed with their male teammates, do you also expect Trans Men to play against women? Despite them potentially being on testosterone programs? Or do they also have to play against men?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:11 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:05 am
towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:46 pm But you hate non-trans women and that’s pathetic. Why do you hate them?
Not true. I have utmost respect for all women and believe that they should all be free to live their lives as they see fit, and engage in whatever lawful activities they choose.
But they aren’t free to avoid competing in professional sport against women that went through puberty with testicles, right? It’s not even about the strength. If Liam Mess transitioned, he would pole-axe the poor women because he grew up learning how to smash people in a way that women have never been exposed to. This is a can of worms that doesn’t have to be opened. These people are not being discriminated against, but sometimes life is unfair and in this case you don’t have the capability to remove this unfairness without making it very unfair for someone else.
If you make Trans Women play Rugby as a man then you are discriminating against them. I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

I’m going to bed now. Don’t you dare view my disappearance as any sort of victory, you woman hating son-of-a-bitch.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:14 am I’m going to bed now. Don’t you dare view my disappearance as any sort of victory, you woman hating son-of-a-bitch.
Just a quick response to my last question and then you can go to sleep. Do Trans Men have to play against women given they were born female?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:14 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:11 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:05 am
towny wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:46 pm But you hate non-trans women and that’s pathetic. Why do you hate them?
Not true. I have utmost respect for all women and believe that they should all be free to live their lives as they see fit, and engage in whatever lawful activities they choose.
But they aren’t free to avoid competing in professional sport against women that went through puberty with testicles, right? It’s not even about the strength. If Liam Mess transitioned, he would pole-axe the poor women because he grew up learning how to smash people in a way that women have never been exposed to. This is a can of worms that doesn’t have to be opened. These people are not being discriminated against, but sometimes life is unfair and in this case you don’t have the capability to remove this unfairness without making it very unfair for someone else.
If you make Trans Women play Rugby as a man then you are discriminating against them. I'm not sure how anyone could argue otherwise?
Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:17 am Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
Thank you for at least admitting that forcing a Trans woman to play Rugby as a man is discrimination :thumbup:
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:16 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:14 am I’m going to bed now. Don’t you dare view my disappearance as any sort of victory, you woman hating son-of-a-bitch.
Just a quick response to my last question and then you can go to sleep. Do Trans Men have to play against women given they were born female?
Has their transition given them an unfair physical advantage? If so, they can’t play against women.

This isn’t all hard if you stop being a $2 philosopher and just approach it with common sense. The thing is, someone is going to be lose out. If you can’t accept that then you’ll just fark it all up.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by towny »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:20 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:17 am Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
Thank you for at least admitting that forcing a Trans woman to play Rugby as a man is discrimination :thumbup:
I didn’t actually, but I will admit that my approach would sadly not let some trans women get full satisfaction from their lives.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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This whole debate is built around alarmism.

Transgender people have been around for a long time, and Trans people are not dominating women's' sport. They are no Transgender professional athletes, that I am aware of, and women's Rugby is not beset with teams comprised solely of butch Polynesian trannies who are salivating at the prospect of crushing of pretty, slender Caucasian girls. Transgender people suffer terribly from discrimination. Huge cohorts of our population don't even recognise that being transgender is a legitimate 'thing' in the same way that people though homosexuality wasn't legitimate 50 years ago. All sports should be encouraging Transgender participation, not coming up with cunning ways to exclude these people.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:24 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:20 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:17 am Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
Thank you for at least admitting that forcing a Trans woman to play Rugby as a man is discrimination :thumbup:
I didn’t actually, but I will admit that my approach would sadly not let some trans women get full satisfaction from their lives.
The safety claim is a lie and we all know it.

Polynesian kids can be much bigger than white kids due to genetics. Over the years there have been sporadic calls for weight divisions in junior Rugby in Brisbane, which is really all about making PI kids play against older kids.

If Polynesian kids living in Brisbane were only allowed to play Rugby in a special Polynesian comp, which featured only other Polynesian players, would you consider that discrimination?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by guy smiley »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:32 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:24 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:20 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:17 am Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
Thank you for at least admitting that forcing a Trans woman to play Rugby as a man is discrimination :thumbup:
I didn’t actually, but I will admit that my approach would sadly not let some trans women get full satisfaction from their lives.
The safety claim is a lie and we all know it.

Polynesian kids can be much bigger than white kids due to genetics. Over the years there have been sporadic calls for weight divisions in junior Rugby in Brisbane, which is really all about making PI kids play against older kids.

If Polynesian kids living in Brisbane were only allowed to play Rugby in a special Polynesian comp, which featured only other Polynesian players, would you consider that discrimination?
That's some bizarre leap you're making there that does nothing to help clarify what is clearly a vexed issue. Conflationary statements like this are exactly what turn threads like this into shitfights. Suggesting weight based grades doesn't automatically lead to comps based on race, FFS. That's a hysterical claim to make.

To back my point up, here's the Auckland Rugby Union's table for age and weight grade rugby...
https://www.aucklandrugby.co.nz/Junior- ... ht-Chart-1
a successful formula that leads to inclusion for all who want to play without excessive risk of injury.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am That's some bizarre leap you're making there that does nothing to help clarify what is clearly a vexed issue. Conflationary statements like this are exactly what turn threads like this into shitfights. Suggesting weight based grades doesn't automatically lead to comps based on race, FFS. That's a hysterical claim to make.
Probably wasn't my best analogy. The safety argument for discriminating against Transgender people is flawed and that was the point I was trying to make.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Jerome Manning »

guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am That's some bizarre leap you're making there that does nothing to help clarify what is clearly a vexed issue. Conflationary statements like this are exactly what turn threads like this into shitfights.
It's very weird to bring race into into. Big white guys do exists. It's either an elaborate troll or very confused, stupid thinking.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:53 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am That's some bizarre leap you're making there that does nothing to help clarify what is clearly a vexed issue. Conflationary statements like this are exactly what turn threads like this into shitfights.
It's very weird to bring race into into. Big white guys do exists. It's either an elaborate troll or very confused, stupid thinking.
I was using PI children as an example of a minority group that could be excluded from rugby for safety reasons to try and show that excluding trans people is also discrimination.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by guy smiley »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:57 am
Jerome Manning wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:53 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:44 am That's some bizarre leap you're making there that does nothing to help clarify what is clearly a vexed issue. Conflationary statements like this are exactly what turn threads like this into shitfights.
It's very weird to bring race into into. Big white guys do exists. It's either an elaborate troll or very confused, stupid thinking.
I was using PI children as an example of a minority group that could be excluded from rugby for safety reasons to try and show that excluding trans people is also discrimination.
Fair enough... so let's extrapolate out a bit and suggest that trans people could compete in weight based divisions...


oh, they do. Ok, so that's it then. Good thread.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Ali's Choice »

guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:59 am Fair enough... so let's extrapolate out a bit and suggest that trans people could compete in weight based divisions...


oh, they do. Ok, so that's it then. Good thread.
So aside from picking apart my analogy, what are your views on transgender participation in sport?
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by guy smiley »

Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:00 am
guy smiley wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:59 am Fair enough... so let's extrapolate out a bit and suggest that trans people could compete in weight based divisions...


oh, they do. Ok, so that's it then. Good thread.
So aside from picking apart my analogy, what are your views on transgender participation in sport?
I'm happy to see it continue but I think some qualifications are in order so that, in the case of men transitioning to women, any potentially unfair advantage can be negated as much as possibly by regulation. As I said, weight grading is an obvious factor but I'm sure focussed analysis of data should be able to provide some decent guidelines.

Some will be disadvantaged through this. As Towny posted earlier, there will be a line you get to where you have to make choices over who misses out. My preference is to preserve the integrity of natural sport, I'm heavily against the use of doping for instance so I would come down in favour of those born with a sex / gender match over a trans athlete should it come down to that.
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Anonymous 1
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:20 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:17 am Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
Thank you for at least admitting that forcing a Trans woman to play Rugby as a man is discrimination :thumbup:
No one is forcing them to do anything
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Ali's Choice
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:20 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:17 am Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
Thank you for at least admitting that forcing a Trans woman to play Rugby as a man is discrimination :thumbup:
No one is forcing them to do anything
If a Transgender woman wants to play Rugby, and she is prohibited from playing with other women, then she is forced to play with men. Or as you say, she can give up playing Rugby entirely.
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:36 am
Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:34 am
Ali's Choice wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:20 am
towny wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:17 am Yep. I hate it but that’s how it is.
You have to choose which group should lose out. Which do you choose? Don’t say ‘none’ as it’s nonsense.
Thank you for at least admitting that forcing a Trans woman to play Rugby as a man is discrimination :thumbup:
No one is forcing them to do anything
If a Transgender woman wants to play Rugby, and she is prohibited from playing with other women, then she is forced to play with men. Or as you say, she can give up playing Rugby entirely.
A. transgender woman is a geezer
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Ali's Choice
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

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Anonymous 1 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:39 am A. transgender woman is a geezer
Sadly this is what this entire debate boils down to for most people. Thank you anonymous for having the honesty to illustrate that most people who are against Transgender inclusion in sport are simply transphobic :thumbup: I appreciate your honesty and your contribution to this discussion.
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Jerome Manning
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Re: NZ Transgender Weightlifter Cleared to Compete by the IOC

Post by Jerome Manning »

A genuine question because I know nothing about the topic -

Could a transgender person change their gender on a weekly or daily basis? ie could Elliott Page decide that he is a woman tomorrow?
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