All Black squad selection thread

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guy smiley
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by guy smiley »

Kiwias wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:36 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm
Eugenius wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:06 am
sinba556 wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:23 am Jordie Barrett and rugby brain? He often makes poor decisions, both as an all black and hurricane. Doesnt fill me with confidence for All Blacks

Jordie and brain used in the same sentence?

That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
Jordie is 24 now and I just thought I'd toss in the fact that Daniel Carter was 23 when he played against the B&I Lions in 2005, exhibiting a pretty decent head for rugby.
:lol:

McCaw was 20 when he won MOTM in his first test.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Sonny Blount »

guy smiley wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:41 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:36 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm
Eugenius wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:06 am


Jordie and brain used in the same sentence?

That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
Jordie is 24 now and I just thought I'd toss in the fact that Daniel Carter was 23 when he played against the B&I Lions in 2005, exhibiting a pretty decent head for rugby.
:lol:

McCaw was 20 when he won MOTM in his first test.

McCaws head lost us a RWC quarter final
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Kiwias
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Kiwias »

guy smiley wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:41 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:36 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm
Eugenius wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:06 am


Jordie and brain used in the same sentence?

That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
Jordie is 24 now and I just thought I'd toss in the fact that Daniel Carter was 23 when he played against the B&I Lions in 2005, exhibiting a pretty decent head for rugby.
:lol:

McCaw was 20 when he won MOTM in his first test.
:lol:
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UncleFB
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by UncleFB »

booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:09 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm
Eugenius wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:06 am
sinba556 wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:23 am Jordie Barrett and rugby brain? He often makes poor decisions, both as an all black and hurricane. Doesnt fill me with confidence for All Blacks

Jordie and brain used in the same sentence?

That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
:lol: You beat me to it!
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

Kiwias wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:11 am
guy smiley wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:41 am
Kiwias wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:36 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm


That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
Jordie is 24 now and I just thought I'd toss in the fact that Daniel Carter was 23 when he played against the B&I Lions in 2005, exhibiting a pretty decent head for rugby.
:lol:

McCaw was 20 when he won MOTM in his first test.
:lol:
:lol:
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Sonny Blount »

UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:09 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm
Eugenius wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:06 am


Jordie and brain used in the same sentence?

That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
:lol: You beat me to it!
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by guy smiley »

Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:58 am McCaws head lost us a RWC quarter final
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Sonny Blount »

guy smiley wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:58 am McCaws head lost us a RWC quarter final

I was highlighting your absurdity.

Having a good head doesn't mean every play or game works out for you.

We certainly needed someone like Jordie Barrett in that game, who would have a go and make something happen.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by guy smiley »

Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:53 am
guy smiley wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:58 am McCaws head lost us a RWC quarter final

I was highlighting your absurdity.
It's just a shame you weren't quoting me, then really.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Grandpa »

Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:09 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm


That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
:lol: You beat me to it!
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I especially liked the way Jordie turned around the world cup semi against England when he came on...
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by UncleFB »

Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:09 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:59 pm


That's the reason I think he should start for the All Blacks. One of the best heads for rugby for his age that you will ever see.

His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
:lol: You beat me to it!
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by sinba556 »

UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:09 am
Eugenius wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:05 am


His great head for rugby pretty much lost us a couple of tests so far .... and counting .
:lol: You beat me to it!
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by UncleFB »

sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:09 am

:lol: You beat me to it!
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
S
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
Yeah but Reiko said Jordies name so his fluffers have forever blamed it on him.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:09 am

:lol: You beat me to it!
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by sinba556 »

jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
How I feel watching Jordie play in the all blacks...
Image
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:06 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am

Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
How I feel watching Jordie play in the all blacks...
Image
Indeed. Unfortunately one of the three Barretts in Kevin "Smiling all the way to the bank" Barrett's seemingly impenetrable contract.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by booji boy »

sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:06 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am

Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
How I feel watching Jordie play in the all blacks...
Image
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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booji boy
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by booji boy »

jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:24 am
FFS, Sonny has straight up lost the plot, he's picked Jordie's worst aspect and tried to make out it's a positive. :lol:
Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
Let's get some perspective on that incident. We'd just scored a somewhat fortuitous try to make it 13-7. Despite the absolute shellacking we had taken we were only 6 point behind with plenty of time on the clock. A rousing come from behind victory seemed on the cards. What was needed now was cool heads. Secure the restart and work our way back upfield to put ourselves in position to score again. But Jordie has other ideas and attempts a clumsy offload to a prop who was coming in to support him and secure the ball and wasn't expecting a pass. Knock on, scrum England. Opportunity blown. x(
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Grandpa
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Grandpa »

booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:21 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am

Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
Let's get some perspective on that incident. We'd just scored a somewhat fortuitous try to make it 13-7. Despite the absolute shellacking we had taken we were only 6 point behind with plenty of time on the clock. A rousing come from behind victory seemed on the cards. What was needed now was cool heads. Secure the restart and work our way back upfield to put ourselves in position to score again. But Jordie has other ideas and attempts a clumsy offload to a prop who was coming in to support him and secure the ball and wasn't expecting a pass. Knock on, scrum England. Opportunity blown. x(
Just reading that brings back so many traumatic memories. We all remember where we were when JFK, John Lennon and the All Blacks hopes of WC victory were tragically and senselessly ripped away from us....
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Quite ineteresting that he getting in the shit for losing the 2019 WC semi, first a lot of players were saying that 10s win and lose WCs and now it's the 23?? :lol: :lol: :lol: (I know I taking the piss noone actually said that)
I thought out forwards were pretty ordinary and on the back of the RMo certainly didn't have a game he would remember with a lot of glee. Although you not meant to mention that with some fans here.
So for all the arguments we can have, doesn't matter who is really picked in any position is whole team not good you lose. Those that reckon it down to the 10 who win WCs, I reckon it no more the 10, than the forwards, or the 9 etc etc. Some positions you can look a million bucks when everyone else is making you look good, 7s,9s and 10s seem to be 3 positions that shows up in rugby on the back of tighties work!
I of the old school which thinks 1 person can't win or lose you a test, including a kicker.
Last edited by Dan54. on Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Sonny Blount »

sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:06 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am

Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
How I feel watching Jordie play in the all blacks...
Image

How I feel when Jordie subs on in the second half of a test match:

Image
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booji boy
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by booji boy »

Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:15 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:06 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
How I feel watching Jordie play in the all blacks...
Image

How I feel when Jordie subs on in the second half of a test match:

Image
:lol: Good on you Sonny. :thumbup:

For the record I don't dislike Jordie and want him to do well. I just can't help feeling he's been hyped from the start because of his famous surname and BB was at his peak and winning consecutive world player of the year awards when Jordie arrived on the scene. I have nothing against the guy just feel like his performance hasn't lived up to the hype and if it wasn't for his famous brother he wouldn't have been an AB so soon and wouldn't attract nearly as much attention as he does.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Sonny Blount »

booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:42 pm
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 9:15 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:06 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm

This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
How I feel watching Jordie play in the all blacks...

How I feel when Jordie subs on in the second half of a test match:

:lol: Good on you Sonny. :thumbup:

For the record I don't dislike Jordie and want him to do well. I just can't help feeling he's been hyped from the start because of his famous surname and BB was at his peak and winning consecutive world player of the year awards when Jordie arrived on the scene. I have nothing against the guy just feel like his performance hasn't lived up to the hype and if it wasn't for his famous brother he wouldn't have been an AB so soon and wouldn't attract nearly as much attention as he does.

He's certainly no DC or McCaw and its to his credit that is who is being compared to.

But like Richie Mo'unga, he's a guy that we can hope will do good things in an All Black jumper and we're still waiting for the payoff.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by guy smiley »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

booji boy wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:21 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:35 pm
sinba556 wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:30 pm
UncleFB wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:49 am
Sonny Blount wrote: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:25 am

Willing to double down on it too. Jordies mental composure is outstanding.

You need to be a rugby retard to blame him single handedly for test losses.
I didn't blame him singlehandedly for any test losses, that's his brothers domain, but composure is not something he's well known for, your comments suggest you have never seen him play.
This is the man that took a quick throw in against the boks, and proceeded to pass it directly Willie Le roux?
:lol: Yes. Also took a ball deep in his own territory in the 2019 semi final against England, and was about as composed as a lock in the same situation (Retallick, B excepted). Which essentially he is.
Let's get some perspective on that incident. We'd just scored a somewhat fortuitous try to make it 13-7. Despite the absolute shellacking we had taken we were only 6 point behind with plenty of time on the clock. A rousing come from behind victory seemed on the cards. What was needed now was cool heads. Secure the restart and work our way back upfield to put ourselves in position to score again. But Jordie has other ideas and attempts a clumsy offload to a prop who was coming in to support him and secure the ball and wasn't expecting a pass. Knock on, scrum England. Opportunity blown. x(
Anyone else get the same 'if only' vibes the following week when a more intelligent selection gave Wales a decent shellacking? Noting of course that Wales didn't present quite such an intense challenge.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:30 am
Peteray wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:19 am They have very different strengths... remember the Foxy v Carlos debates?
Wasn't it Foxy vs Frano Botica in the 1980's and Merhtens vs Carlos in the 1990's?
Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

jdogscoop wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:14 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:31 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:03 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:27 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:20 pm

Isn't this a discussion about first fives?

Thanks for confirming he scored a match winning try at an RWC. If only Merthens or Spencer or Mo'unga could have done that too.
What it also suggests is that he tends to play his best rugby wider out - as a super sub with more time and space.
Yes I agree he was dynamite as an impact player early on in his career. He won World Rugby Player of the year in 2016 and 2017 when he played 27 games. All playing at first five except 1 game. His win rate was 92% with 1 loss and 1 draw.
Which is the year Gats introduced the rush defence and BB's form fell off a cliff. The 2017 award was a joke which it sometimes is.
BB was in great form in 2016 and 2017. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. To suggest he wasn't the best player in the world for those 2 years and the best 10 in NZ is just being obtuse.

BTW I'm not arguing that Richie Mo'unga isn't the form 10 now. I've named him in all of my preferred selections over the last few weeks. That said he must do better. The results of the team with him at the helm have not been good enough.

The fact remains that Beauden Barrett had a streak where he was dynamite for a couple of years in the 10 jersey. He has been inconsistent for a few years now and I don't know if he will ever be as good as he has been in the past but his record speaks for itself.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

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Best Ever Off The Bench
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:12 am
jdogscoop wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:14 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:31 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:03 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:27 pm

Thanks for confirming he scored a match winning try at an RWC. If only Merthens or Spencer or Mo'unga could have done that too.
What it also suggests is that he tends to play his best rugby wider out - as a super sub with more time and space.
Yes I agree he was dynamite as an impact player early on in his career. He won World Rugby Player of the year in 2016 and 2017 when he played 27 games. All playing at first five except 1 game. His win rate was 92% with 1 loss and 1 draw.
Which is the year Gats introduced the rush defence and BB's form fell off a cliff. The 2017 award was a joke which it sometimes is.
BB was in great form in 2016 and 2017. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. To suggest he wasn't the best player in the world for those 2 years and the best 10 in NZ is just being obtuse.

BTW I'm not arguing that Richie Mo'unga isn't the form 10 now. I've named him in all of my preferred selections over the last few weeks. That said he must do better. The results of the team with him at the helm have not been good enough.

The fact remains that Beauden Barrett had a streak where he was dynamite for a couple of years in the 10 jersey. He has been inconsistent for a few years now and I don't know if he will ever be as good as he has been in the past but his record speaks for itself.
I wasn't impressed by Barrett in 2017. Of course he was great in 2016.

In 2017 he really struggled against the British and Irish Lions, and his lack of command was a factor in the series being drawn.

That was the year I began to question whether he had the goods to be the starting AB test first five, and in the seasons since that question has been answered.

He does not.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:02 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:30 am
Peteray wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:19 am They have very different strengths... remember the Foxy v Carlos debates?
Wasn't it Foxy vs Frano Botica in the 1980's and Merhtens vs Carlos in the 1990's?
Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
* Incorrect buzzer sound *

The 2003 NZ pack got smoked by the Wallabies.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

jdogscoop wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:29 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:12 am
jdogscoop wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 10:14 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:31 pm
jdogscoop wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:03 pm

What it also suggests is that he tends to play his best rugby wider out - as a super sub with more time and space.
Yes I agree he was dynamite as an impact player early on in his career. He won World Rugby Player of the year in 2016 and 2017 when he played 27 games. All playing at first five except 1 game. His win rate was 92% with 1 loss and 1 draw.
Which is the year Gats introduced the rush defence and BB's form fell off a cliff. The 2017 award was a joke which it sometimes is.
BB was in great form in 2016 and 2017. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous. To suggest he wasn't the best player in the world for those 2 years and the best 10 in NZ is just being obtuse.

BTW I'm not arguing that Richie Mo'unga isn't the form 10 now. I've named him in all of my preferred selections over the last few weeks. That said he must do better. The results of the team with him at the helm have not been good enough.

The fact remains that Beauden Barrett had a streak where he was dynamite for a couple of years in the 10 jersey. He has been inconsistent for a few years now and I don't know if he will ever be as good as he has been in the past but his record speaks for itself.
I wasn't impressed by Barrett in 2017. Of course he was great in 2016.

In 2017 he really struggled against the British and Irish Lions, and his lack of command was a factor in the series being drawn.

That was the year I began to question whether he had the goods to be the starting AB test first five, and in the seasons since that question has been answered.

He does not.
You base that off 2 games. He was fine in the first game but things were much tougher after SBW got red carded. The Lions got their tail up.

THe B&I series draw did tarnish his record somewhat but apart from that he was consistently excellent throughout 2017 which is why outside of Richie McCaw he is the only player to receive the award two years in a row.

As for whether he can ever be a contributor to the same level again we will have to wait and see. He is only 30 and Dan Carter managed to come back in 2015 from a few quiet seasons to make an impression.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

jdogscoop wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:31 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:02 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:30 am

Wasn't it Foxy vs Frano Botica in the 1980's and Merhtens vs Carlos in the 1990's?
Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
* Incorrect buzzer sound *

The 2003 NZ pack got smoked by the Wallabies.
So what you are saying is there is no excuse for Merthens in 1995 and 1999 but Spencer can get a pass for 2003?
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by jdogscoop »

The point has already been made above.

A first five is not solely responsible for the result. Though it's an important position, it's only one of 15 on the field.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by guy smiley »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:47 am THe B&I series draw did tarnish his record somewhat but apart from that he was consistently excellent throughout 2017 which is why outside of Richie McCaw he is the only player to receive the award two years in a row.
I've avoided your repeated references to the WPOTY award because I figured you're trolling with it. There has been enough conjecture or outright scepticsm over that award on enough occasions to suggest it's at best flawed or worse, a bit of a sop. A joke. Not to be taken seriously.

An Any Fat Tourist award, basically. Nice to have and certainly deserved in some cases but not always a fair indicator of the hard work done by others to get one person to the top.
Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:47 am As for whether he can ever be a contributor to the same level again we will have to wait and see. He is only 30 and Dan Carter managed to come back in 2015 from a few quiet seasons to make an impression.
Quiet seasons being defined by injury, yeah? :lol: :thumbup:
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:02 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:30 am
Peteray wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 7:19 am They have very different strengths... remember the Foxy v Carlos debates?
Wasn't it Foxy vs Frano Botica in the 1980's and Merhtens vs Carlos in the 1990's?
Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
hell I thought we got pretty well smoked all over field in 95, we got bugger all front foot ball, and Boks smacked anyone who had it including Jonah. If I remember watching it, there was hardly a place we were on top , and if we lost because Merths missed a kick?
Same as 2003 against Aus, we lost by 8 points anyway. Just looked clueless most of game , Rangi at 13 wasn't great, but neither was he the reason we lost.
How the hell one person can win or lose a game is beyond me.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Kiwias »

jdogscoop wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:31 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:02 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:30 am

Wasn't it Foxy vs Frano Botica in the 1980's and Merhtens vs Carlos in the 1990's?
Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
* Incorrect buzzer sound *

The 2003 NZ pack got smoked by the Wallabies.
The Wallabies absolutely ragdolled us in that semi, something like the way we were shamed by England in the 2019 semi.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

guy smiley wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:59 am
I've avoided your repeated references to the WPOTY award because I figured you're trolling with it. There has been enough conjecture or outright scepticsm over that award on enough occasions to suggest it's at best flawed or worse, a bit of a sop. A joke. Not to be taken seriously.

An Any Fat Tourist award, basically. Nice to have and certainly deserved in some cases but not always a fair indicator of the hard work done by others to get one person to the top.
The argument has always been about if the best player for that year won the award. Was there someone better than Barrett in 2017? Maybe but every player who won it still played well. Beauden Barrett played well in 2017.

If any fat tourist can win it then why hasn't Mo'unga who is now 27. Mo'unga has pulled games out of the bag often when the Crusaders have been playing poorly. Why hasn't he done that at test level? Why couldn't he do it for the All Blacks in 2019 and win player of the year?
guy smiley wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:59 am
Quiet seasons being defined by injury, yeah? :lol: :thumbup:
I will grant you he had some injury struggles but he also had a long period where we would just shovel the ball on not really setting up anything. Similar to the Beauden Barrett would shovel the ball on.
Last edited by Pakia Pakia on Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:24 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

Kiwias wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:09 am
jdogscoop wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:31 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:02 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am

Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
* Incorrect buzzer sound *

The 2003 NZ pack got smoked by the Wallabies.
The Wallabies absolutely ragdolled us in that semi, something like the way we were shamed by England in the 2019 semi.
I'm glad you are supporting Spencer too.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Pakia Pakia »

Dan54. wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:01 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:02 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:30 am

Wasn't it Foxy vs Frano Botica in the 1980's and Merhtens vs Carlos in the 1990's?
Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
hell I thought we got pretty well smoked all over field in 95, we got bugger all front foot ball, and Boks smacked anyone who had it including Jonah. If I remember watching it, there was hardly a place we were on top , and if we lost because Merths missed a kick?
The Springboks weren't on top either. It was parity all the way through and it was down to which 10 kicked the most points. Joel Stransky kicked more. The two sides were even as it was in 2011 when Donald kicked the goal that mattered.
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Re: All Black squad selection thread

Post by Dan54. »

Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:17 am
Dan54. wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:01 am
Pakia Pakia wrote: Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:02 am
booji boy wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:37 pm
Pakia Pakia wrote: Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:46 am

Maybe that's what he meant.

There wasn't actually a lot of difference to how Merthens and Spencer played. They had much more in common with each other compared to the NH based first fives at the time. They both had good running games, kicking from hand, and good passing games.

They were both much more attacking than NH fly halves and they were both defensive flakes when you compare them to the likes of Larkham, WIlkinson and Carter.

They both failed to win World Cups ( both crumbled ) where as Larkham, Wilkinson and Carter all won World Cups.

Spencers record for the AB's was marginally better but neither had records that came close to matching Carter's, Cruden's, or Barretts who won a much higher percentage of games and all were part of World Cup winning teams.

RMo has tough shoes to fill.
You say that as if the losses in those world cups were all down to the first five? :?

Have you not played rugby? Do you not realise it is difficult for the first five (in fact the whole backline) to do anything when your forward pack is getting smoked in front of you.
I agree that a 10 will have little chance to guide their team to a win when the forwards are dominated.

None of the forward packs were smoked in any of the games we lost in 95/99/03.

Merthens did miss a crucial drop kick and Spencer did throw an intercept pass to Mortlock.

Stephen Donald of all people made his crucial penalty in 2011 when it was needed.
hell I thought we got pretty well smoked all over field in 95, we got bugger all front foot ball, and Boks smacked anyone who had it including Jonah. If I remember watching it, there was hardly a place we were on top , and if we lost because Merths missed a kick?
The Springboks weren't on top either. It was parity all the way through and it was down to which 10 kicked the most points. Joel Stransky kicked more. The two sides were even as it was in 2011 when Donald kicked the goal that mattered.
Or perhaps their teams put them in a position to kick them?
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