DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

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Druid
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DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Druid »

French news says 27 deaths.
Tragic news indeed, water temperature must be very low at this time of year.
https://www.reuters.com/world/five-migr ... 021-11-24/
backrow
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by backrow »

France could do more to stop them trying such daft escapades, instead of burning down their shanty town.

One of the victims has been named:















Bob
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by bimboman »

Terrible news and inevitable. People smugglers really are scum.


RIP.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Hoof »

You'd think after Brexit that any self-respecting refugee wouldn't touch Britain with a bargepole.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Varsity Way »

Macron has blood on his hands. Shameless.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Mick Mannock »

Hoof wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:29 pm You'd think after Brexit that any self-respecting refugee wouldn't touch Britain with a bargepole.
Saffer by any chance?
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Enzedder »

Mick Mannock wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:14 pm
Hoof wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:29 pm You'd think after Brexit that any self-respecting refugee wouldn't touch Britain with a bargepole.
Saffer by any chance?
Pom - wears a bedsheet for a robe.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by clementinfrance »

Varsity Way wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:53 pm Macron has blood on his hands. Shameless.
...as does the UK govt for all but shutting down every safe route for migrants into the UK.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by message #2527204 »

clementinfrance wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:58 pm
Varsity Way wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:53 pm Macron has blood on his hands. Shameless.
...as does the UK govt for all but shutting down every safe route for migrants into the UK.
Migrants are welcomed. Asylum seekers are supposed to claim it in the first country they reach. These are failed asylum seekers in the EU who are trying to get into the uk illegally to try again.

France is no better than belorussie.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by DragsterDriver »

If this was the boat the French police watched being loaded and launched there will be questions I’m sure. I’m surprised more don’t drown tbh.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by feckwanker »

Serious question - can the French legally stop people from crossing the channel from France?
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Post by message #2527204 »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:11 pm Serious question - can the French legally stop people from crossing the channel from France?
They have a duty of care ti anyone in their waters
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by feckwanker »

message #2527204 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:21 pm
feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:11 pm Serious question - can the French legally stop people from crossing the channel from France?
They have a duty of care ti anyone in their waters
Ok but how do you define that? Ensuring the sea worthiness of the vessel?
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by clementinfrance »

Instead of the UK sending troops and border force guards to Calais they could just send them to Turkey or even further like Syria or Afghanistan, you know to stop them at the source...
Last edited by clementinfrance on Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by message #2527204 »

feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:23 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:21 pm
feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:11 pm Serious question - can the French legally stop people from crossing the channel from France?
They have a duty of care ti anyone in their waters
Ok but how do you define that? Ensuring the sea worthiness of the vessel?
34 people in an an inflatable dinghy in November would give them a clue.

Apparently the mayor of Calais says it's boris Johnson's fault that the French police allowed traffickers to take people there and watched these poor people get onto a boat and kill themselves
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Quins89 »

Traffickers. Just call them what they are, slave owners.

And yes, inaction has caused this. The ones here should be screened and kicked out. Being held in a hotel captive isn’t humane either. Send them back to the country of origin the illegal migrants came from.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by mdaclarke »

These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Hoof »

mdaclarke wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 pm These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.


It is odd. They could travel to Holland, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Portugal etc etc without risking drowning.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by C69 »

Hoof wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:08 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 pm These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.


It is odd. They could travel to Holland, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Portugal etc etc without risking drowning.
Our government opens its leaky borders and welcomes them in with open arms in records numbers across the Channel.
Record numbers, cheers Tories :thumbup:
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by DAC_ »

Imagine how shit France must be to handover £10k to a bloke from Albania who gives you an oar and a boat and wishes you well as you enter the freezing waters.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by mdaclarke »

Hoof wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:08 pm
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 pm These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.


It is odd. They could travel to Holland, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Portugal etc etc without risking drowning.
Paying all that money to escape the EU.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Anonymous 1 »

clementinfrance wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:58 pm
Varsity Way wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 6:53 pm Macron has blood on his hands. Shameless.
...as does the UK govt for all but shutting down every safe route for migrants into the UK.
Why would they not shut down illegal immigrants
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by mdaclarke »

For all the sadness, this will not change public opinion. Most people cannot understand why they are risking their lives to flee France.

https://twitter.com/DPJHodges?ref_src=t ... r%5Eauthor

"Every time the Government proposes anything - anything at all - to try and stop the trafficking of people across the Channel the liberal Left rushes to oppose. And then a tragedy like this occurs, and suddenly they're gripped with horror and outrage."
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Benthos »

Right, this isn’t a Brexit rant - I said the same when we were in...

Why can’t the EU:
- get all member heads together
- agree a fund/secretariat which, to take the pressure off Greece, Italy and (to a lesser extent) Spain, handles all border issues at the southern border, including patrolling the Med and running transit camps
- get each member country to agree to X refugees p.a.
- process the refugees crossing the Med, allocating and transporting them as per the above agree quotas
- reconvene HOGs when quotas filled, or (last resort) send the surplus back
Isn’t that what a union of countries should be doing..?

*ducks*

PS the Brits should fund and contribute to the above process, Brexit or no Brexit
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Rugby2023 »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:20 pm Imagine how shit France must be to handover £10k to a bloke from Albania who gives you an oar and a boat and wishes you well as you enter the freezing waters.
Well obviously France isn't (that) shit so why do they want to come to Britain? That, as one French politician points out, is what our Government is too cowardly to address with legislation.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Zakar »

mdaclarke wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 pm These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.
Does anyone know why?

Do these people have better English skills, or support networks in the UK and therefore think it's worth the gamble? Pretty massive gamble though, strange decision making going on.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by bobbity »

Benthos wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:27 am
- get each member country to agree to X refugees p.a.
Not that you would ever pick this up from Brits discussing this, but if that happened Britain would have to do two things

1 increase the routes for people to enter the UK
2 massively increase the number of people the UK takes

We refuse to do either and because of a body of water insist that it's all up to mainland Europe to deal with.

Now if either of us has to duck, it's probably not going to be you.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Benthos »

No arguments here, hombre - with any of that :thumbup:
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Rugby2023 »

Zakar wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:55 am
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 pm These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.
Does anyone know why?

Do these people have better English skills, or support networks in the UK and therefore think it's worth the gamble? Pretty massive gamble though, strange decision making going on.
Mayor of Calais speaking earlier this month:
Ms Bouchart, a member of the centre-Right Republicains, said Britain's "soft touch" on migrants had inflicted "trauma" on Calais residents "for over 20 years" by essentially luring people to the French port from all over the EU.

"We know that a migrant who arrives in England is taken care of. They are housed, they have an income," she said. "For them, England remains an El Dorado, but the British Government does not have the courage to review its legislation in the field."
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Post by DOB »

DAC_ wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:20 pm Imagine how shit France must be to handover £10k to a bloke from Albania who gives you an oar and a boat and wishes you well as you enter the freezing waters.
They could've got the same equipment from Decathlon for less than EU500. Probably would've got them closer.
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Post by Duff Paddy »

clementinfrance wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:26 pm Instead of the UK sending troops and border force guards to Calais they could just send them to Turkey or even further like Syria or Afghanistan, you know to stop them at the source...
:lol: Nicely played
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Zakar »

Rugby2023 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:33 am
Zakar wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:55 am
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 pm These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.
Does anyone know why?

Do these people have better English skills, or support networks in the UK and therefore think it's worth the gamble? Pretty massive gamble though, strange decision making going on.
Mayor of Calais speaking earlier this month:
Ms Bouchart, a member of the centre-Right Republicains, said Britain's "soft touch" on migrants had inflicted "trauma" on Calais residents "for over 20 years" by essentially luring people to the French port from all over the EU.

"We know that a migrant who arrives in England is taken care of. They are housed, they have an income," she said. "For them, England remains an El Dorado, but the British Government does not have the courage to review its legislation in the field."

Interesting.

I mean, Mayor of Calais is hardly an unbiased source, but I guess the crux of the point is that refugees are treated well in the UK and not in the EU.

So shamefull by the EU or soft hearted by the UK?
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Duff Paddy »

message #2527204 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:27 pm
feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:23 pm
message #2527204 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:21 pm
feckwanker wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:11 pm Serious question - can the French legally stop people from crossing the channel from France?
They have a duty of care ti anyone in their waters
Ok but how do you define that? Ensuring the sea worthiness of the vessel?
34 people in an an inflatable dinghy in November would give them a clue.

Apparently the mayor of Calais says it's boris Johnson's fault that the French police allowed traffickers to take people there and watched these poor people get onto a boat and kill themselves
I’d love to live in your little naive Daily Mail world it must be bliss to be so f**king stupid and believe everything is Johnny foreigner’s fault. If the French stopped them they’d try again a week later. They are desperate migrants they aren’t stupid they know the risk they are taking - you have to address the reason why they think this is worth the risk.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by MungoMan »

Zakar wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:54 am
Rugby2023 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:33 am
Zakar wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:55 am
mdaclarke wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:06 pm These people are risking their lives (and dying) to go from one safe rich country to travel to another safe rich country.

If anything they are risking their lives to go from a richer country to a poorer country.

Utterly tragic.
Does anyone know why?

Do these people have better English skills, or support networks in the UK and therefore think it's worth the gamble? Pretty massive gamble though, strange decision making going on.
Mayor of Calais speaking earlier this month:
Ms Bouchart, a member of the centre-Right Republicains, said Britain's "soft touch" on migrants had inflicted "trauma" on Calais residents "for over 20 years" by essentially luring people to the French port from all over the EU.

"We know that a migrant who arrives in England is taken care of. They are housed, they have an income," she said. "For them, England remains an El Dorado, but the British Government does not have the courage to review its legislation in the field."

Interesting.

I mean, Mayor of Calais is hardly an unbiased source, but I guess the crux of the point is that refugees are treated well in the UK and not in the EU.

So shamefull by the EU or soft hearted by the UK?
It is clear refugees / asylum seekers / economic immigrants / (or any other term of your choice) leaving Calais by boat to cross the channel are leaving one European country in favour of another.

Making the heroic assumption that the percentage of actual French citizens comprises 3/5ths of fúckall of the total, it is likely the majority will have passed though at least one other European country en route to Calais.

I'm neither a geography nor a geopolitics whiz but I know Europe ≠ the EU. Even so, EU statistics provide a means of viewing informal boat-borne arrivals to the UK against the backdrop of the number of asylum seekers in EU countries.

A rough by-eye calculation from the figure below is that there were something a bit north of 400,000 first-time asylum applications for the EU in 2020.

Image

By way of comparison, the Beeb here reports over 36,000 asylum applications in the UK in 2020. According to the Beeb again, the number of relevant channel crossings for that year was about 8,000. (Year to date number is about 27,500, supposedly).

The point of all this is that although too many folk are willing to risk - literally - all by crossing the channel in a small boat, they are but a small fraction the total number of refugees / asylum seekers / whatever that enter Europe as a whole each year.

That being so, although the 'pull' factor of the UK's financial support for asylum applicants while an application is being processed might get some folk to brave the channel in something small and shitty, it's thoroughly unlikely to be the reason Europe as a whole sees so many informal entries every year.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Catman »

Quins89 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 9:55 pm Traffickers. Just call them what they are, slave owners.

And yes, inaction has caused this. The ones here should be screened and kicked out. Being held in a hotel captive isn’t humane either. Send them back to the country of origin the illegal migrants came from.
How so? Ive seen this perspective quite often and fail to understand it. How can people who pay their entire life savings to someone to smuggle them to another country be called slaves? Are British people importing them? Why ?

The traffickers are fulfilling a willing (if illegal) demand. Yes- they are scumbags- but AFAIK the participants are generally willing.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Rugby2023 »

Another reason so many dinghy incomers desire getting to the UK is that they have minimal chance of being deported. I believe just 5 people out of the tens of thousands who have arrived on British shores have been deported this year. I'm not sure how this compares with other European countries but ostensibly, it appears that once in, the chances of staying in the UK are high.

The recent Liverpool bomber actually had his application for asylum denied, but he was still there years(?) later.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by DragsterDriver »

DOB wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:35 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:20 pm Imagine how shit France must be to handover £10k to a bloke from Albania who gives you an oar and a boat and wishes you well as you enter the freezing waters.
They could've got the same equipment from Decathlon for less than EU500. Probably would've got them closer.
These 50ft dinghys must be a fairly niche item?
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by blindcider »

Its a terrible situation and Europe (not EU) needs to get together and come up with a workable solution to help as many people as possible in a fair and equitable way. For all the public perception in the UK we really don't have as many immigrants arrive as many European countries.

Governments and communities in Europe all seem keenest on making it someone else's problem. Impossible to stop determined people from travelling but the people profiting from this trade should be targeted and stopped
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by bimboman »

blindcider wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:11 am Its a terrible situation and Europe (not EU) needs to get together and come up with a workable solution to help as many people as possible in a fair and equitable way. For all the public perception in the UK we really don't have as many immigrants arrive as many European countries.

Governments and communities in Europe all seem keenest on making it someone else's problem. Impossible to stop determined people from travelling but the people profiting from this trade should be targeted and stopped

Agree with you that it’s a European problem, the question that remains is how many ? And how do we stop the economic migrants and actually help those in real need, who are highly unlikely to be those making it as far as Calais.
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Re: DEATHS IN ENGLISH CHANNEL

Post by Keith »

DragsterDriver wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 8:10 am
DOB wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:35 am
DAC_ wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 10:20 pm Imagine how shit France must be to handover £10k to a bloke from Albania who gives you an oar and a boat and wishes you well as you enter the freezing waters.
They could've got the same equipment from Decathlon for less than EU500. Probably would've got them closer.
These 50ft dinghys must be a fairly niche item?
Never been to Lidl? They're just between the mig welders and trumpets
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