OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

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Whether you can or can't actually vote IRL, In, or Out

In
248
60%
Out
167
40%
 
Total votes: 415

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Gospel
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Gospel »

camroc1 wrote:
Gospel wrote:
kagamusha wrote:As an economic force it is trivial now and the regaining of the 200 mile exclusive limit will have little effect.
Tell that to Brittany. They will lose 80% of their catch.
Fish don't hold nationality. They generally swim about the sea chasing food, and aren't aware (fancy that) of when they cross sea borders. Nobody owns the fish, they simply attempt to catch them as they swim onto the fisherman's home ground.

British fish. :yawn:
Wut? :lol:
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DragsterDriver
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
fisgard792
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by fisgard792 »

the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
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Rocketz
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
It's super fun. This is the web.
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Rocketz
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
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Uthikoloshe
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Uthikoloshe »

Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.
Ok your anti British and I assume that means english. You are probably right depending on whats considered 'damaging'. They seem to have damaged your mind at any rate. What is your grevance against them in particular? Is this a Boer war thing?
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unseenwork
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by unseenwork »

fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
The damage is being done regardless.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by bimboman »

Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.

:lol: , which British ? The ones who fought the Boer war as true working class poor ? The government of the time? Immigrant indians living in Leicester ? The descendants of any of those ?

Come on you crazy bigot help us out here ..... We are aware of our empire both good and bad.
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TranceNRG
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

But a Prime Minister's spokesman said: "The PM has been absolutely clear - the British people have spoken, we are listening, we're going to leave the European Union.

"And not only has the PM been clear here but she's also been clear when she's met European leaders.

"There will be no second referendum, Britain is leaving the European Union."

Downing Street also brushed off concerns about Mr Blair communicating his views with the French President.

Adding: "Tony Blair is entitled to put his views to whom he so chooses. Tony Blair speaks for himself. "
piquant
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by piquant »

Adetroy wrote:Turkey, customs union:

Turkey, by accepting the customs union protocol, was giving the EU the power to manipulate the foreign relations of Turkey. Turkey was accepting all the treaties between EU and any non EU country (i.e. all the other countries in the world) by precondition. (16th and 55th articles[4] )
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting not to do any treaties with any non-EU country without the knowledge of EU. Otherwise, EU had the right to intervene and annul that treaty. (56th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was unconditionally accepting to make laws which are parallel to the newer laws made for the customs union by EU. (8th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting to obey the all laws and decisions of European Court of Justice, where there is no single Turkish judge. (64th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was opening its own market to European goods. The domestic goods of Turkey were in a great difficulty to compete against these due to a difference in quality. The European goods would flow into Turkey without any customs fee.
Thanks for that.

It's always possible of course we can negotiate something out of this, but it's a right old mess we've landed in.
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Rocketz
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

TranceNRG wrote:The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
Didn't you cry last time? And ask your friends here to wipe your nosey wosey?
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by bimboman »

Rocketz wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
Didn't you cry last time? And ask your friends here to wipe your nosey wosey?

Here he is, that gentle decendant of gentle farmers.
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Rocketz
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rocketz »

Uthikoloshe wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
Uthikoloshe wrote:Why do you put such effort into this arguement Rocketz? Also, where do you live?
He's one of a few that simply hate the UK, and invest a lot of time putting the boot in. Constant negative sniping, you need to tune them out.
Come on.... One day the British will own up to the damage they did in the world.
Ok your anti British and I assume that means english. You are probably right depending on whats considered 'damaging'. They seem to have damaged your mind at any rate. What is your grevance against them in particular? Is this a Boer war thing?
There is whole 100 pages of me humiliating trancepms. Explaining it. But it boils down to things like this


https://youtu.be/f7CW7S0zxv4
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henry
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by henry »

There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.
bimboman
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by bimboman »

henry wrote:There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.

Everyone has a drum to beat Henners, there's supporting your team, ribbing the supporters of others, a discussion about a good round of golf, or trying to link everything to a minor historical event in,particular trying to correlate almost any historical and any current event to the historical event that vexes the individual I believe it's clinically known as camrocism.
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Chuckles1188
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

DragsterDriver wrote:
fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
I do find this argument amusing when it comes from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people. Apparently we needed more democracy but not more elections
jorwar
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

piquant wrote:
Adetroy wrote:Turkey, customs union:

Turkey, by accepting the customs union protocol, was giving the EU the power to manipulate the foreign relations of Turkey. Turkey was accepting all the treaties between EU and any non EU country (i.e. all the other countries in the world) by precondition. (16th and 55th articles[4] )
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting not to do any treaties with any non-EU country without the knowledge of EU. Otherwise, EU had the right to intervene and annul that treaty. (56th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was unconditionally accepting to make laws which are parallel to the newer laws made for the customs union by EU. (8th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was accepting to obey the all laws and decisions of European Court of Justice, where there is no single Turkish judge. (64th article[4])
Turkey, by entering to the customs union, was opening its own market to European goods. The domestic goods of Turkey were in a great difficulty to compete against these due to a difference in quality. The European goods would flow into Turkey without any customs fee.
Thanks for that.

It's always possible of course we can negotiate something out of this, but it's a right old mess we've landed in.
John Harris in the guardian:

"A lot of these people would presumably agree with AC Grayling, who may yet find himself in the unfamiliar position of speaking for a substantial body of public opinion: leaving the EU, he recently tweeted, “is obviously such an incredibly bad idea – just stop it."

For many people that kind of talk always triggers a deep ambivalence. If what took the leave side to victory was the support of so-called “left behind” voters who had not been listened to for decades, it still seems to me that arguing they should be ignored may not just be democratically questionable, but a gift to the forces that, even with Ukip apparently imploding, would know a once-in-a-lifetime chance when they saw it, and strike. Witness the pro-Brexit tycoon Arron Banks, who now wants to bankroll nothing less than a “people’s movement”, and give voice to “England rising”. In that sense, there remains a good argument for those of us who voted remain to stand back, and let this frazzled example of government-by-plebiscite run its course, while bearing in mind the immortal words of the US writer and satirist HL Mencken: “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.”
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

bimboman wrote:
Rocketz wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:The loony saffer halfwit is best put on ignore :nod:
Didn't you cry last time? And ask your friends here to wipe your nosey wosey?

Here he is, that gentle decendant of gentle farmers.
He's too stupid to realise I put the numpty on ignore :o
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DragsterDriver
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
I do find this argument amusing when it comes from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people. Apparently we needed more democracy but not more elections
I've not heard it from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people :)

I think there's enough turmoil without adding too it, the uncertainty would be too toxic- what if it's a win for remain? Do we then have another one? We'd be in limbo forever.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
I do find this argument amusing when it comes from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people. Apparently we needed more democracy but not more elections
So more democracy means more referendums till you get the result you want? If things are so bad in 10 years time after being out of the EU (I don't believe they will be) then yes hold another referendum and if people want to join the sinking ship that is the EU yes do so.
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henry
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by henry »

bimboman wrote:
henry wrote:There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.

Everyone has a drum to beat Henners, there's supporting your team, ribbing the supporters of others, a discussion about a good round of golf, or trying to link everything to a minor historical event in,particular trying to correlate almost any historical and any current event to the historical event that vexes the individual I believe it's clinically known as camrocism.
I'd like to think I'd have a pint with everyone on here but one or two individuals, definitely give one pause.
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DragsterDriver
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by DragsterDriver »

henry wrote:
bimboman wrote:
henry wrote:There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.

Everyone has a drum to beat Henners, there's supporting your team, ribbing the supporters of others, a discussion about a good round of golf, or trying to link everything to a minor historical event in,particular trying to correlate almost any historical and any current event to the historical event that vexes the individual I believe it's clinically known as camrocism.
I'd like to think I'd have a pint with everyone on here but one or two individuals, definitely give one pause.
I'd have to buy my own drink, and not let it out of my sight :o
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Sefton
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Sefton »

henry wrote:
bimboman wrote:
henry wrote:There are some massively weird people on here. It borders on alarming.

Everyone has a drum to beat Henners, there's supporting your team, ribbing the supporters of others, a discussion about a good round of golf, or trying to link everything to a minor historical event in,particular trying to correlate almost any historical and any current event to the historical event that vexes the individual I believe it's clinically known as camrocism.
I'd like to think I'd have a pint with everyone on here but one or two individuals, definitely give one pause.
I'd feel uncomfortable taking a beverage within a 100 mile vicinity of Rocketz, he's up there with Silver and WT as a genuine batshit loon.
piquant
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by piquant »

jorwar wrote: "A lot of these people would presumably agree with AC Grayling, who may yet find himself in the unfamiliar position of speaking for a substantial body of public opinion: leaving the EU, he recently tweeted, “is obviously such an incredibly bad idea – just stop it."

For many people that kind of talk always triggers a deep ambivalence. If what took the leave side to victory was the support of so-called “left behind” voters who had not been listened to for decades, it still seems to me that arguing they should be ignored may not just be democratically questionable, but a gift to the forces that, even with Ukip apparently imploding, would know a once-in-a-lifetime chance when they saw it, and strike.
I think we have to respect the result of the referendum. But it's not easy as to what comes next, partly it's not easy to see a path forward that doesn't cost a lot of money, partly beyond 'leave the EU' there's no actual mandate set out.
fisgard792
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by fisgard792 »

Chuckles1188 wrote:
DragsterDriver wrote:
fisgard792 wrote:the referendum campaign exposed everything wrong about democracy n the uk

on one side you had fear and exaggeration, on the other there were plain and obvious lies, but when as a country you have gone to war on the basis of lies, its hardly surprising thats a possible outcome for accepted campaigning.

whether one agree's with the referendum result or not, imo, it would do untold damage to the UK to hold another referendum
Can't see there being a referendum or general
Election- there's enough upheaval.
I do find this argument amusing when it comes from people who argued passionately that we should leave the EU to become a more democratic nation which makes its own decisions based on the will of the British people. Apparently we needed more democracy but not more elections
you are getting so blinkered you are going round in an incoherent circle nowadays
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Duff Paddy
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

piquant wrote:
jorwar wrote: "A lot of these people would presumably agree with AC Grayling, who may yet find himself in the unfamiliar position of speaking for a substantial body of public opinion: leaving the EU, he recently tweeted, “is obviously such an incredibly bad idea – just stop it."

For many people that kind of talk always triggers a deep ambivalence. If what took the leave side to victory was the support of so-called “left behind” voters who had not been listened to for decades, it still seems to me that arguing they should be ignored may not just be democratically questionable, but a gift to the forces that, even with Ukip apparently imploding, would know a once-in-a-lifetime chance when they saw it, and strike.
I think we have to respect the result of the referendum. But it's not easy as to what comes next, partly it's not easy to see a path forward that doesn't cost a lot of money, partly beyond 'leave the EU' there's no actual mandate set out.
Fleet Street had a good old laugh at Ireland re-running the Lisbon Treaty referendum but maybe now it is a little more clear that referenda usually aren't the appropriate mechanism to decide on complex issues. Brexit was the wrong decision and there's no shame in admitting that the referendum got it wrong.
piquant
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by piquant »

Duff Paddy wrote:
piquant wrote:
jorwar wrote: "A lot of these people would presumably agree with AC Grayling, who may yet find himself in the unfamiliar position of speaking for a substantial body of public opinion: leaving the EU, he recently tweeted, “is obviously such an incredibly bad idea – just stop it."

For many people that kind of talk always triggers a deep ambivalence. If what took the leave side to victory was the support of so-called “left behind” voters who had not been listened to for decades, it still seems to me that arguing they should be ignored may not just be democratically questionable, but a gift to the forces that, even with Ukip apparently imploding, would know a once-in-a-lifetime chance when they saw it, and strike.
I think we have to respect the result of the referendum. But it's not easy as to what comes next, partly it's not easy to see a path forward that doesn't cost a lot of money, partly beyond 'leave the EU' there's no actual mandate set out.
Fleet Street had a good old laugh at Ireland re-running the Lisbon Treaty referendum but maybe now it is a little more clear that referenda usually aren't the appropriate mechanism to decide on complex issues. Brexit was the wrong decision and there's no shame in admitting that the referendum got it wrong.
I think it's an appalling decision, but I also think the votes went as they did and it's important to respect that.
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

Anyway my original question about what the PM thinks still interests me. There are people like Liam Fox who would leave come what may, or people like Clegg who are ideologically pro EU

If presented with all the data, the views, the available deal and all the behind closed doors info, and leaving looked bad, would the PM press ahead anyway because of a vote in 2016 or take another route.

I don't think it's anti democratic or sneering to be concerned that because of politics we'd go down a clearly inferior path.

It might not be that clear cut when it comes to the crunch, but was 23rd June 2016 the last time anyone had any right to influence this issue?
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Duff Paddy »

SamShark wrote:Anyway my original question about what the PM thinks still interests me. There are people like Liam Fox who would leave come what may, or people like Clegg who are ideologically pro EU

If presented with all the data, the views, the available deal and all the behind closed doors info, and leaving looked bad, would the PM press ahead anyway because of a vote in 2016 or take another route.

I don't think it's anti democratic or sneering to be concerned that because of politics we'd go down a clearly inferior path.

It might not be that clear cut when it comes to the crunch, but was 23rd June 2016 the last time anyone had any right to influence this issue?
The Nissan announcement must be based upon assurances made to them that brexit will not in fact mean brexit and that the UK will remain in the common market. There is surely no way Nissan would proceed without this assurance.
Last edited by Duff Paddy on Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sefton
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Sefton »

SamShark wrote:Anyway my original question about what the PM thinks still interests me. There are people like Liam Fox who would leave come what may, or people like Clegg who are ideologically pro EU

If presented with all the data, the views, the available deal and all the behind closed doors info, and leaving looked bad, would the PM press ahead anyway because of a vote in 2016 or take another route.

I don't think it's anti democratic or sneering to be concerned that because of politics we'd go down a clearly inferior path.

It might not be that clear cut when it comes to the crunch, but was 23rd June 2016 the last time anyone had any right to influence this issue?
I think the PM would go with the decision that she felt was politically advantageous to her, it was no coincidence that she was the least visible amongst all the senior Conservative politicians during the referendum campaign.
jorwar
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

piquant wrote:
Duff Paddy wrote:
piquant wrote:
jorwar wrote: "A lot of these people would presumably agree with AC Grayling, who may yet find himself in the unfamiliar position of speaking for a substantial body of public opinion: leaving the EU, he recently tweeted, “is obviously such an incredibly bad idea – just stop it."

For many people that kind of talk always triggers a deep ambivalence. If what took the leave side to victory was the support of so-called “left behind” voters who had not been listened to for decades, it still seems to me that arguing they should be ignored may not just be democratically questionable, but a gift to the forces that, even with Ukip apparently imploding, would know a once-in-a-lifetime chance when they saw it, and strike.
I think we have to respect the result of the referendum. But it's not easy as to what comes next, partly it's not easy to see a path forward that doesn't cost a lot of money, partly beyond 'leave the EU' there's no actual mandate set out.
Fleet Street had a good old laugh at Ireland re-running the Lisbon Treaty referendum but maybe now it is a little more clear that referenda usually aren't the appropriate mechanism to decide on complex issues. Brexit was the wrong decision and there's no shame in admitting that the referendum got it wrong.
I think it's an appalling decision, but I also think the votes went as they did and it's important to respect that.
But isn't that denying the sovereignty argument, that parliament calls the tune in this country, it listens and then acts.
Rugby2023
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Rugby2023 »

SamShark wrote:Anyway my original question about what the PM thinks still interests me. There are people like Liam Fox who would leave come what may, or people like Clegg who are ideologically pro EU

If presented with all the data, the views, the available deal and all the behind closed doors info, and leaving looked bad, would the PM press ahead anyway because of a vote in 2016 or take another route.

I don't think it's anti democratic or sneering to be concerned that because of politics we'd go down a clearly inferior path.

It might not be that clear cut when it comes to the crunch, but was 23rd June 2016 the last time anyone had any right to influence this issue?
Presumably, the only other route is not leaving, then yes I expect she would press ahead. Apart from anything else, I doubt she would last long if she did not do so.

On the latter point, you can influence the issue by voting for a pro-EU party such as the Lib Dems at the next General Election.
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SamShark
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by SamShark »

I don't particularly want to see another referendum anyway - id rather that a very clear 'deal' emerges that parliament can vote on.

There has to be some accountability for the real outcome, not the vague concept of in vs out that was put to people previously.

Let's say we went for a hard brexit "because the people said they wanted to control immigration" and it went horribly tits up, can the people who negotiated the deal just say that it wasn't their fault and they were just interpreting the will of just over half of the population about 3 years ago.
Last edited by SamShark on Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TranceNRG
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

SamShark wrote:Anyway my original question about what the PM thinks still interests me. There are people like Liam Fox who would leave come what may, or people like Clegg who are ideologically pro EU

If presented with all the data, the views, the available deal and all the behind closed doors info, and leaving looked bad, would the PM press ahead anyway because of a vote in 2016 or take another route.

I don't think it's anti democratic or sneering to be concerned that because of politics we'd go down a clearly inferior path.

It might not be that clear cut when it comes to the crunch, but was 23rd June 2016 the last time anyone had any right to influence this issue?
I think only Theresa May and her close colleagues know what she really thinks but I suspect she was a reluctant remainer (like so many other people) who didn't like a lot of things about the EU but was supporting it purely for economical reasons (uncertainty is not great for the economy). Since the referndum she's accepted the result and is committed to delivering the result and getting the best deal possible for the UK - they are being ambitious but a lot of people are trying to stop them but she's shown her great leadership qualities and in resilient in her approach. Theresa May and the government must also be very encouraged by the positive economic data that has come out since referendum - UK economy is one of the strongest in the EU and can withstand tough times. She knows the majority of the UK want immigration controls and she also knows businesses want tariff free access for goods and services. They have a tough job going in to negotiations but they are being optimistic.

I reckon people/parliament will get a say on the final deal before UK leave the EU.
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Chuckles1188
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by Chuckles1188 »

There seems to be something spectacularly British about the way everyone has decided that a terribly-designed referendum result has to be more inviolable and less susceptible to rethinking or checking than any other political decision we have ever made. We are deeply shit at plebiscites, and if we're going to start using them to make decisions on a regular basis then a proofing stage will be inevitable.
jorwar
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by jorwar »

TranceNRG wrote:
SamShark wrote:Anyway my original question about what the PM thinks still interests me. There are people like Liam Fox who would leave come what may, or people like Clegg who are ideologically pro EU

If presented with all the data, the views, the available deal and all the behind closed doors info, and leaving looked bad, would the PM press ahead anyway because of a vote in 2016 or take another route.

I don't think it's anti democratic or sneering to be concerned that because of politics we'd go down a clearly inferior path.

It might not be that clear cut when it comes to the crunch, but was 23rd June 2016 the last time anyone had any right to influence this issue?
I think only Theresa May and her close colleagues know what she really thinks but I suspect she was a reluctant remainer (like so many other people) who didn't like a lot of things about the EU but was supporting it purely for economical reasons (uncertainty is not great for the economy). Since the referndum she's accepted the result and is committed to delivering the result and getting the best deal possible for the UK - they are being ambitious but a lot of people are trying to stop them but she's shown her great leadership qualities and in resilient in her approach. Theresa May and the government must also be very encouraged by the positive economic data that has come out since referendum - UK economy is one of the strongest in the EU and can withstand tough times. She knows the majority of the UK want immigration controls and she also knows businesses want tariff free access for goods and services. They have a tough job going in to negotiations but they are being optimistic.

I reckon people/parliament will get a say on the final deal before UK leave the EU.
It'll have to be quick because she stupidly set a march deadline. Any deal after that will be a bum deal.
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TranceNRG
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

SamShark wrote:I don't particularly want to see another referendum anyway - id rather that a very clear 'deal' emerges that parliament can vote on.

There has to be some accountability for the real outcome, not the vague concept of in vs out that was put to people previously.

Let's say we went for a hard brexit "because the people said they wanted to control immigration" and it went horribly tits up, can the people who negotiated the deal just say that it wasn't their fault and they were just interpreting the will of just over half of the population about 3 years ago.
They have repeatedly said the parliament will have a say on the final deal. What some people want is to pick an option before they go in to negotiations which is absurd. They are going for the best possible deal for the UK (tariff free access for goods and service but with immigration controls) then it's give and take.
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Re: OFFICIAL EU/UK referendum thread

Post by TranceNRG »

jorwar wrote:
TranceNRG wrote:
SamShark wrote:Anyway my original question about what the PM thinks still interests me. There are people like Liam Fox who would leave come what may, or people like Clegg who are ideologically pro EU

If presented with all the data, the views, the available deal and all the behind closed doors info, and leaving looked bad, would the PM press ahead anyway because of a vote in 2016 or take another route.

I don't think it's anti democratic or sneering to be concerned that because of politics we'd go down a clearly inferior path.

It might not be that clear cut when it comes to the crunch, but was 23rd June 2016 the last time anyone had any right to influence this issue?
I think only Theresa May and her close colleagues know what she really thinks but I suspect she was a reluctant remainer (like so many other people) who didn't like a lot of things about the EU but was supporting it purely for economical reasons (uncertainty is not great for the economy). Since the referndum she's accepted the result and is committed to delivering the result and getting the best deal possible for the UK - they are being ambitious but a lot of people are trying to stop them but she's shown her great leadership qualities and in resilient in her approach. Theresa May and the government must also be very encouraged by the positive economic data that has come out since referendum - UK economy is one of the strongest in the EU and can withstand tough times. She knows the majority of the UK want immigration controls and she also knows businesses want tariff free access for goods and services. They have a tough job going in to negotiations but they are being optimistic.

I reckon people/parliament will get a say on the final deal before UK leave the EU.
It'll have to be quick because she stupidly set a march deadline. Any deal after that will be a bum deal.
No the march deadline is to trigger article 50. You don't want to delay that any longer. They haven been working hard behind closed doors since the referendum to come up with a plan for negotiations (I'm sure the naysayers will say there's no plan because the details haven't been released). There won't be a deal put to the parliament before that simply because the final deal depends on the negotiations between UK and EU.
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