Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African referees?

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beachboy
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by beachboy »

Only Rinky could make a thread about some dubious calls a rant about how overrated the Stormers players are and intimating we are the only beneficiaries and that its a conspiracy to help the Stormers. I think you should stick to the Trump thread or hockey and cricket commentary. You are obsessed and clueless. We were actually good value for a draw notwithstanding the decision.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Armchair_Superstar »

Peyper has been flying the flag alone for far too long.
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Chilli
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Chilli »

Rinkals wrote:
Additionally, it allows refs from other nations some justification for their own home town decisions.
In the history of rugby, this has never happened. EVER!
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Sandstorm »

Rinkals wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:Lions have gone 1/20 and 2/11 with Seconds in charge for their home games this season. (Russ Petty on Twitter)

Image
Seconds was a Stormers player and the Lions were done in by a series of highly questionable decisions when they played them previously this season.

I have to say that the intervention of the South African TMO to intercede on behalf of the Stormers to deny the Crusaders in tonight's game of a legitimate and exceptionally well worked try on the most spurious basis is absolutely shameful, but fully to be expected when the Stormers are playing.

It helps nobody.

It may propel the Stormers to the top of the table, but granting them superiority on a sloping playing field means that they are probably not prepared when the field is level. The bulk of the Springboks play for the Stormers (and the Bulls) and this sort of favouritism means that this is a skewed benchmark when it comes to selecting the national side.

Additionally, it allows refs from other nations some justification for their own home town decisions.
Dickhead :thumbdown:
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Salient »

Chilli wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Additionally, it allows refs from other nations some justification for their own home town decisions.
In the history of rugby, this has never happened. EVER!
No I'm still going to bitch about Aussie and Pommie Refs, regardless if they make the right call or not :nod:
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Rinkals
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Rinkals »

Chilli wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Additionally, it allows refs from other nations some justification for their own home town decisions.
In the history of rugby, this has never happened. EVER!
Well, yes, of course it has.

But it's not really a desirable outcome.
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Rinkals
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Rinkals »

Sandstorm wrote:
Rinkals wrote:
Margin_Walker wrote:Lions have gone 1/20 and 2/11 with Seconds in charge for their home games this season. (Russ Petty on Twitter)

Image
Seconds was a Stormers player and the Lions were done in by a series of highly questionable decisions when they played them previously this season.

I have to say that the intervention of the South African TMO to intercede on behalf of the Stormers to deny the Crusaders in tonight's game of a legitimate and exceptionally well worked try on the most spurious basis is absolutely shameful, but fully to be expected when the Stormers are playing.

It helps nobody.

It may propel the Stormers to the top of the table, but granting them superiority on a sloping playing field means that they are probably not prepared when the field is level. The bulk of the Springboks play for the Stormers (and the Bulls) and this sort of favouritism means that this is a skewed benchmark when it comes to selecting the national side.

Additionally, it allows refs from other nations some justification for their own home town decisions.
Dickhead :thumbdown:
Which part do you disagree with?

Do you think that the TMO was right to disallow the try?
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Sandstorm
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Sandstorm »

The part where you blame the Stormers. The players had nothing to do with it. Idiot.
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The Native
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by The Native »

The Lions now have a 43-6 penalty count in their favour in home games against the Highlanders, Waratahs and Rebels with South African referees in charge.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by eugenius »

True Blue wrote:Saffas circling the wagons trying to pretend a 20-1 penalty count is normal. :lol:

But it’s because you cheat !?!

😂
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by True Blue »

Yes I see the Highlanders were also whistled off the park. Total coincidence I'm sure. 43-6, nothing to see here.

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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Adrianmole »

it is an ANC quota requirement:)
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Jensrsa wrote:All this proves is that the Kiwi and Aussie refs are too lenient when their teams cheat
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Waka Nathan
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Waka Nathan »

I've just seen that so-called "forward pass". Not remotely forward. A disgraceful act by Jonker--one that has become worryingly standard for the desperate South Africans.

World Rugby law 12: Knock on or Throw Forward: "A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward, i.e, if the arms of the player passing the ball move towards the opposing team's dead ball line.

Ennor's pass is a clear match for the examples World Rugby provided in this video on what ISN'T a forward pass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylgA

Jonker's excitement at being in a position to wipe out Reece's try was palpable; he could barely contain himself.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Waka Nathan wrote:I've just seen that so-called "forward pass". Not remotely forward. A disgraceful act by Jonker--one that has become worryingly standard for the desperate South Africans.

World Rugby law 12: Knock on or Throw Forward: "A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward, i.e, if the arms of the player passing the ball move towards the opposing team's dead ball line.

Ennor's pass is a clear match for the examples World Rugby provided in this video on what ISN'T a forward pass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylgA

Jonker's excitement at being in a position to wipe out Reece's try was palpable; he could barely contain himself.
It was disgraceful. And cost the Crusaders not only a win, but also a Bonus Point win.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by obelixtim »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Waka Nathan wrote:I've just seen that so-called "forward pass". Not remotely forward. A disgraceful act by Jonker--one that has become worryingly standard for the desperate South Africans.

World Rugby law 12: Knock on or Throw Forward: "A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward, i.e, if the arms of the player passing the ball move towards the opposing team's dead ball line.

Ennor's pass is a clear match for the examples World Rugby provided in this video on what ISN'T a forward pass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylgA

Jonker's excitement at being in a position to wipe out Reece's try was palpable; he could barely contain himself.
It was disgraceful. And cost the Crusaders not only a win, but also a Bonus Point win.
Wait till the RWC. I hope he doesn't TMO for any of the AB games. Todays effort should disqualify him from the RWC panel. I pity any team who gets him. Someone will suffer at his hands.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Kiwias »

Ali's Choice wrote:
Waka Nathan wrote:I've just seen that so-called "forward pass". Not remotely forward. A disgraceful act by Jonker--one that has become worryingly standard for the desperate South Africans.

World Rugby law 12: Knock on or Throw Forward: "A throw forward occurs when a player throws or passes the ball forward, i.e, if the arms of the player passing the ball move towards the opposing team's dead ball line.

Ennor's pass is a clear match for the examples World Rugby provided in this video on what ISN'T a forward pass:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=box08lq9ylgA

Jonker's excitement at being in a position to wipe out Reece's try was palpable; he could barely contain himself.
It was disgraceful. And cost the Crusaders not only a win, but also a Bonus Point win.
Totally agree with this.
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naki
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by naki »

It doesn’t matter if the likes or Jonker are at the WC - they can’t officiate a SA team there.

I generally prefer SA refs in neutral contests, I find them usually highly competent and empathic to the flow of the game (give or take a Seconds or two). In contrast I often find myself questioning the competence of NZ or Australian refs.

It’s not competence that’s the concern.
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Ali's Choice
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

naki wrote:It doesn’t matter if the likes or Jonker are at the WC - they can’t officiate a SA team there.

I generally prefer SA refs in neutral contests, I find them usually highly competent and empathic to the flow of the game (give or take a Seconds or two). In contrast I often find myself questioning the competence of NZ or Australian refs.

It’s not competence that’s the concern.
And the annoying thing is that SANZAAR could fix this tomorrow by changing the rules and returning to the rule of refereeing neutrality that coincided with the heyday of this comp. Perception if everyting in sports. I got up at 2am to watch my team play in SA and I went to bed with a feeling in my gut that a local TMO had stiched up my team. Fans are leaving Super Rubgy in droves and it's because the comp is poorly run.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Waka Nathan »

obelixtim wrote:
Wait till the RWC. I hope he doesn't TMO for any of the AB games. Todays effort should disqualify him from the RWC panel. I pity any team who gets him. Someone will suffer at his hands.
It is not just the obviously bent Jonker that is a problem; the gutless ref--Berry--who allowed his decision to be overturned is also a worry.
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naki
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by naki »

Waka Nathan wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Wait till the RWC. I hope he doesn't TMO for any of the AB games. Todays effort should disqualify him from the RWC panel. I pity any team who gets him. Someone will suffer at his hands.
It is not just the obviously bent Jonker that is a problem; the gutless ref--Berry--who allowed his decision to be overturned is also a worry.
He was obviously not convinced, then Jonker ramped it up with “clear and compelling evidence”. Must be very difficult for the on-field ref to overrule in a case like that given they have to implicitly trust their assistant’s multiple HD viewing experience.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Waka Nathan »

naki wrote:
Waka Nathan wrote:
obelixtim wrote:
Wait till the RWC. I hope he doesn't TMO for any of the AB games. Todays effort should disqualify him from the RWC panel. I pity any team who gets him. Someone will suffer at his hands.
It is not just the obviously bent Jonker that is a problem; the gutless ref--Berry--who allowed his decision to be overturned is also a worry.
He was obviously not convinced, then Jonker ramped it up with “clear and compelling evidence”. Must be very difficult for the on-field ref to overrule in a case like that given they have to implicitly trust their assistant’s multiple HD viewing experience.
Jonkers excited call of "clear and compelling evidence" was remarkable: he didn't actually state what this "evidence" actually was with regards to Law 12. The pass was either made in the direction of the opposition's dead ball line or it wasn't. The pass clearly and obviously wasn't.

What is the point of neutral referees if they allow the local TMO to make the critical decisions? SANZAAR management is clueless: the CEO is an idiot blind to what is happening to the credibility of Super rugby and Lyndon Bray, the referee's boss, is a serial apologist. He doesn't have the guts to make hard decisions.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by JB1981 »

I have just seen the pass and that must be one of the worst TMO interventions I have seen. I was going to question whether that call or Jordie Barrett's brain explosion was the worst decision of the round but I suspect out of Jonker and JB, only one is regretting anything right now.
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CrazyIslander
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by CrazyIslander »

Do Saffas understand this is destroying their legacy? Does this mean the invincible Boks of old were Ref assisted? All to win a couple of SR games?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jdogscoop »

I had the misfortune of watching the Landers v Lions game, and while Rasta blew very quickly in favour of SA's favourite sons, the Landers struggled to get anything out of him at all.

The Lions' charmed run continues. Until the finals.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by jdogscoop »

Good to see the teams have had a gutsful and are starting to speak up about it.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/sup ... -get-caned
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Harden up!!! »

Ali's Choice wrote:When it comes to referees, South Africans are hypocrites. They ended Bryce Lawrence's refereeing career, threatening to brutally kill him and his young family, because he officiated a RWC Quarter Final which they lost, back in 2011. Hundreds of thousands of South Africans joined Facebook 'hate sites' created solely to attack Bryce Lawrence and hound him from the game. Yet when their own referees guide local teams to victory week in, week out with 20-1 penalty counts against visiting teams, they circle the wagons and defend the indefensible.

I want you to think about this hypothetical situation. Imagine a South African Super Rugby team lost a final, in NZ, with a NZ referee officiating a 20-1 penalty count? Imagine the outcry? The howls of indignations?

Imagine the Springboks lost a RWC final off the back of a 20-1 penalty count? Even with a neutral referee, South African fans would revolt. Their heads would literally explode.

Anyway, South Africans have shown that they cannot be trusted to referee their own teams, and SANZAAR needs to stop this farce immediately.
What neutral ref would want to risk their life to do that?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Waka Nathan »

CrazyIslander wrote: Does this mean the invincible Boks of old were Ref assisted?
In the immortal words of bent South African referee Gert Bezuidenhout to the 1976 AB touring team: 'Listen boys, you can go to your home, I have to live here'.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Sards »

It's not a good look at all.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Harden up!!! »

Waka Nathan wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote: Does this mean the invincible Boks of old were Ref assisted?
In the immortal words of bent South African referee Gert Bezuidenhout to the 1976 AB touring team: 'Listen boys, you can go to your home, I have to live here'.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Ali's Choice »

Waka Nathan wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote: Does this mean the invincible Boks of old were Ref assisted?
In the immortal words of bent South African referee Gert Bezuidenhout to the 1976 AB touring team: 'Listen boys, you can go to your home, I have to live here'.
:lol: sums up the problem rather nicely :thumbup:
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by guy smiley »

Sards wrote:It's not a good look at all.
I understand how tempting it would be to launch into some sort of combat comment here and wind a few posters up. I appreciate your honesty Sards, and I agree. It’s just not a good look.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Bokkom »

That's right, get those Jaapies.
I am all for it. :thumbup:
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Rinkals »

Sandstorm wrote:The part where you blame the Stormers. The players had nothing to do with it. Idiot.
I didn't blame the Stormers.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by obelixtim »

Waka Nathan wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote: Does this mean the invincible Boks of old were Ref assisted?
In the immortal words of bent South African referee Gert Bezuidenhout to the 1976 AB touring team: 'Listen boys, you can go to your home, I have to live here'.
I remember one of the 1976 tests where Squid Going was going to have a shot at goal from a penalty. The ball fell over, and Gert refused to let him stand it up and have another attempt. I think this comment came from him after that game.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Hong Kong »

Okay. I’ve now seen the incident which has caused this latest kerfuffle and blimey! What an extraordinary call...
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Kiwias »

Hong Kong wrote:Okay. I’ve now seen the incident which has caused this latest kerfuffle and blimey! What an extraordinary call...
If you had been the referee, would you have overruled the TMO's call?
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Hong Kong »

Kiwias wrote:
Hong Kong wrote:Okay. I’ve now seen the incident which has caused this latest kerfuffle and blimey! What an extraordinary call...
If you had been the referee, would you have overruled the TMO's call?
The clip I saw did not show whether the ref had access to the big screen at the ground or had to rely upon the TMO call on the pass.
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by Sards »

Sandstorm wrote:The part where you blame the Stormers. The players had nothing to do with it. Idiot.
Stormers got the rub Sandy but unless the Stormers were complicit in the refs actions and this ( very unlikely)nobody has implied...the issue is with the way the refs and officials are officiating to favor one side.

I think you do realize that there is no moral high road if you are implicated in the same behavior and this can potentially destroy the credibility of officials and make a complete mockery of playing these games.

That is my issue
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Re: Are we back to the 'bad old days' of South African refer

Post by CrazyIslander »

Waka Nathan wrote:
CrazyIslander wrote: Does this mean the invincible Boks of old were Ref assisted?
In the immortal words of bent South African referee Gert Bezuidenhout to the 1976 AB touring team: 'Listen boys, you can go to your home, I have to live here'.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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